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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 12, 2020 18:16:46 GMT
Here we shall discuss one of the most controversial topics in WC4. Guderian's empty skills! I hope we can find the ultimate answer to this controversial topic.
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 12, 2020 18:20:47 GMT
So here are the possible skills for Guderian: A. Rumor B. Plain fighting C. Machinist D. Explosives E. Cover F. Crossfire G. Ace forces Is there more? Please share your thoughts and reasoning down bellow... 😄
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 13, 2020 2:18:58 GMT
Im a staunch rumor + explosives, the orthodox. What do the rest think?
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 13, 2020 2:33:45 GMT
Im a staunch rumor + explosives, the orthodox. What do the rest think? You are probably not the most orthodox. We have that carpet bombing guy. Do you think I should add carpet bombing as a posible option even though it is highly unlikely?
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 13, 2020 2:37:19 GMT
Im a staunch rumor + explosives, the orthodox. What do the rest think? Oh yeah, would you give your reasoning too?
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 13, 2020 3:01:48 GMT
Im a staunch rumor + explosives, the orthodox. What do the rest think? Oh yeah, would you give your reasoning too? Rumor, disable threats, explosives, capture cities fast. I believe this has been the crux for Guderian on the forum, for the older guard at least
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 13, 2020 5:25:41 GMT
According to my analysis:
Rumor IS very useful (especially in the end games) and it gives Guderian a solid defense.
Machinist is also wonderfully great! It can heal Guderian 600hp during your 40 turns conquests. It is multiple times better than cover (do the math).
Plain fighting is not so good because in plains you don't get any coverages from panzer and artillery attacks and you won't be able to fight effectively in other terrains or defend a city.
Cover is much inferior to machinist as it only covers 10.8% damage from the enemy (12%×90%=10.8%). Imagine doing a mission of 20 rounds where you get an average damage of 50hp/turn. That means you get a total damage of 1000hp on Guderian. Your cover only blocks 108hp in total (1000×10.8%=108), while machinist heals 300hp (15×20). Machinist is almost 3 times more useful even when you get such a high average damage.
Tide of iron? Unreliable..
Ace forces? Not that useful, especially on Guderian which you would only assign to high ranked panzers.
Crossfire? Not very useful when you already have Rommel and only have 1 medal for crossfire. It's also inferior to armored assault and doesn't trigger when attacked by artilleries.
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Post by jibon on Apr 13, 2020 8:42:53 GMT
Im a staunch rumor + explosives, the orthodox. What do the rest think? You are probably not the most orthodox. We have that carpet bombing guy. Do you think I should add carpet bombing as a posible option even though it is highly unlikely? Yeah, the carpet bombing guy here CB is not the orthodox,as air bombing is historically modern compare to other tank / artillery technology. For my Guderian skills, I firm to add rumour and explosive. Why explosive? Guderian high attack make him best choice to capture cities, that the ultimate goal in most of this game, right? Also He is faster, that he can reach any city or fort in almost every turn. Superb
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 13, 2020 9:33:07 GMT
You are probably not the most orthodox. We have that carpet bombing guy. Do you think I should add carpet bombing as a posible option even though it is highly unlikely? Yeah, the carpet bombing guy here CB is not the orthodox,as air bombing is historically modern compare to other tank / artillery technology. For my Guderian skills, I firm to add rumour and explosive. Why explosive? Guderian high attack make him best choice to capture cities, that the ultimate goal in most of this game, right? Also He is faster, that he can reach any city or fort in almost every turn. Superb Welcome, carpet bombing guy😄 Well, here's my viewpoint. Guderian is a pure combat general, thus we must treat him as one. Giving your generals explosives isn't a bad idea either, but not [specifically] on Guderian, as cities are not a big problem (you can destroy them easily without explosives. But guess what? He is a very important man and he must deal with the terrorist gangsters before they crush your units. Therefore he needs a high survivability to maintain his fitness (because strength will decrease when your units' hp drop below 50%. He is like the grandfather of all your troops. He protects. He attacks. He leads your offensives. And most importantly, he must survive. Also, if his survivability is high, he can be alive until the end of your campaigns/conquests, which means he can do more damage. Survivability = damage output. As for the citiy-crackings, you don't need Guderian, your other troops can take them of easily, the main problems are the terrorist gangsters. After you take out their generals and first wave attack, the rest will be much easier (airforce/missile+paradrop=victory). Also, there are challenges that will force and exploit your generals to their maximum limits (such as conquest 1950 Greece, Thailand, RoC, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Cuba, Turkey, etc; conquest 1980 Cuba, Thailand, Spain, Iraq, Turkey, Egypt, Germany, etc). So better be ready for those. Btw, if you need an explosive general, you can give it to Yamashita/MacArthur and put him on a stacked mechanized infantry.
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 13, 2020 10:35:53 GMT
To all visitors of this page, I would appreciate your contributions on this thread to discuss and share your experiences as this topic is one of the most controversial and important topics. Even your smallest contribution is respected.😊
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erwinrommel23
Captain
In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine.
Posts: 125
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Post by erwinrommel23 on Apr 13, 2020 16:49:13 GMT
To all visitors of this page, I would appreciate your contributions on this thread to discuss and share your experiences as this topic is one of the most controversial and important topics. Even your smallest contribution is respected.😊 I go with rumor and explosives as my choice, I have played WC4 so many times now and at one point cloud saved right before I added a new abilitys and tried it out, then I restarted and tried another out, Imo i think explosives and rumor are good.
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 13, 2020 16:56:10 GMT
To all visitors of this page, I would appreciate your contributions on this thread to discuss and share your experiences as this topic is one of the most controversial and important topics. Even your smallest contribution is respected.😊 I go with rumor and explosives as my choice, I have played WC4 so many times now and at one point cloud saved right before I added a new abilitys and tried it out, then I restarted and tried another out, Imo i think explosives and rumor are good. Do you play speedruns? What benefit you feel the most from explosives? As for me, I think it is not really good as it doesn't make Guderian more survivable and doesn't increase your output to enemy ground units (which are more dangerous especially with terrorist generals)
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erwinrommel23
Captain
In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine.
Posts: 125
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Post by erwinrommel23 on Apr 13, 2020 17:07:05 GMT
I go with rumor and explosives as my choice, I have played WC4 so many times now and at one point cloud saved right before I added a new abilitys and tried it out, then I restarted and tried another out, Imo i think explosives and rumor are good. Do you play speedruns? What benefit you feel the most from explosives? As for me, I think it is not really good as it doesn't make Guderian more survivable and doesn't increase your output to enemy ground units (which are more dangerous especially with terrorist generals) I use gunderian to open up cities and take care of forts when needed. he is my second tank gen most of the time, (my main account I have manstein, zhukov, gunderian, konev, rommel, nimitz at the moment). its the most i have found success on in campagin missions.
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 14, 2020 0:42:21 GMT
I go with rumor and explosives as my choice, I have played WC4 so many times now and at one point cloud saved right before I added a new abilitys and tried it out, then I restarted and tried another out, Imo i think explosives and rumor are good. Do you play speedruns? What benefit you feel the most from explosives? As for me, I think it is not really good as it doesn't make Guderian more survivable and doesn't increase your output to enemy ground units (which are more dangerous especially with terrorist generals) Do you speedrun? I dont see many speedrunners now days, now that wc4 has declined in popularity...
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 14, 2020 1:50:50 GMT
Do you play speedruns? What benefit you feel the most from explosives? As for me, I think it is not really good as it doesn't make Guderian more survivable and doesn't increase your output to enemy ground units (which are more dangerous especially with terrorist generals) Do you speedrun? I dont see many speedrunners now days, now that wc4 has declined in popularity... I don't play speed runs, that's why I don't like explosives. The most thing I hate about explosives is that it doesn't give extra damage to any units besides the threatless forts. If only it gives +20% to forts and +10% to armored units, I would like it more. In real life, you can also use explosives for tanks, though
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