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Post by Darth Vader on Apr 23, 2020 18:54:01 GMT
Hey guys, I remember Washington being a beast in 1776 and holding on to Philadelphia. Also I changed my profile to something more "social" .
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Apr 23, 2020 23:34:12 GMT
I see. On Charles vs Junot, I thought you were comparing them in terms of creating an all tier-1 lineup, which Junot is plain better than Charles in clearing enemies outside of cities (most of them). If you are talking about early game then yes Charles definitely. At least I cannot tolerate Junot's 0* movement. Speaking of that, I'd suggest putting Quosdanovih and Diez on your radar. Both suck in terms of damage when compared to Dumouriez, Charles, etc. but at least they have ok movement + cavalry stars and are both trainers. Well yeah if you don't keep reinstalling then getting a decent beginning general sometimes will be a pain. I somehow always get lucky in the first few refreshes so I wasn't really thinking about it. My problem. If you are talking about a cavalry op in early game... Mr. No need to regroup? lol Based on my experiment, Sophia always takes one more turn than Isabela (both not regrouped in movement, no item) to get to Barcelona on that light cav at Weilburg, 1798 HRE. But if I feel like taking Lyon on the way there then it will be the same, and we both know Davout has the lowest average output out of the 3 you mentioned without regrouping. And for my 1775 US conquest, you can even do it with 0 general and be perfectly fine, except it will be harder to fight Spain. As for campaigns... in my memory I rarely needed my cavalry general to maneuver over a relatively long distance within a single turn, so Dumouriez with 2* movement was fast enough for me. So I would say Davout's cavalry aspect is not necessarily THAT outstanding at the very beginning of the game. I admit his uniqueness on artillery though. He is the only iap cavarly general with geography, so you kind of have a berthier lite when you use him, except with assualt art instead of strike. Now radetsky does start with 4 training stars, same movement, and 4 trading stars, so he also is not bad at helping with obtaining the princesses so i do see your point. On artillery, the best iap is hands down Nelson (as Moreau is pretty subpar). But I still feel as though Davout can affectively multitask. For instance, if you need a fast cavarly general (Sardinia 1815), you can always rely on davout as there are tons and tons of desert tiles in Algeria. I was going of the logic that as you only have access to one war horse early on, you probably want to give it to Sophia. Other iaps can be also fantastic for grabbing princesses, but Davout’s movement is easily the best out of all of them. You need a strong artillery general? Davout’s is available. While he can be a bit inconsistent when it comes to output, he is definitely far from a bad general. Although I do agree, surprise/explosive are only really stand out when paired with bugle or assualt art. So Poniatowski can really do what davout does while also being a fantastic naval general and having leadership. Still i do feel as Davout’s output difference over poniatowski is quite significant nevertheless. Actually... I meant Lasalle. lol It is true that Davout is one of the fastest out of all IAP cavalry guys (probably except Lasalle), but as you can see, his advantage in movement is not that significant in princess-winning conquests, namely 1798 HRE and 1775 US. I'm sure you will agree that cavalry general would be the most helpful one if we only have access to one general in these two cases. On cavalry, once Davout loses his advantage in speed, he will be nothing but a weaker Murat. He is pretty decent right out of the box, but how much "out there" is he comparing to other great cavalry generals in tier 3? As for campaigns, Davout when maxed out is absolutely a killing machine with incredible speed, but to make him stand out you have to put him on either light or heavy cavalry. On guards cavalry or armored car he becomes weaker Murat again. For a hard campaign with only light/heavy cavalry I can only come up with Road to Hell right now, but are you sure rushing 6 hex in Road to Hell isn't a fastpass to hell? For conquests then yeah 6 hex is awesome, but that's already for challenge or fun instead of getting princesses. If you need someone who is great at cavalry and artillery then Davout is certainly the way to go (unless you want Desaix). Poniatowski... I somehow never find him good. Probably because I'm too much a fan of Strike, Accurate, and Bugle.
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Post by 𝘛𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘴𝘬𝘺 on Apr 24, 2020 1:02:18 GMT
Davout
Price: 8 Emblems Type of General: Cavarly & Artillery Hybrid Starting Movement: 4 hex on Heavy Cavarly and Light Cavarly, 3 Hex on Horse Grenadiers and Armored Cars. 2 hex on heavy artillery and siege artillery. 3 hex on light artillery and rocket artillery Solid! For some, he will be good. For others, he will be very good. He is either a cavarly general with 3 good skills, or an artillery general with 3 good skills. No one in the middle tier can do what davout does. Fantastic! The perfect general to starting farming for princesses with. I'm amazed - I thought he's one of the IAP's looking good but in the end only a lucky puncher. His speed: For a starting general he's missing one move star to be fast. To see him moving 6 Hex on Heavy Cav: 2000🎖 (2 saddles + 2 Dietz) and - if heavy cavalry might be acceptably - he can't move 100% free as he's missing Leadership His output: Base Att+ +1 give high output and AssultArt - looking really nice ... But: ...- only in plain open field - one tree and the dream is over - without siege mater he will be lousy against cities - even Assault Art can't help as it doesn't rise your output - only your chance of a maximum damage - even his stat. average will be only 2% higher thanks to Assault Art - on a low base as in too many situations he will be lousy I thought- he's crap But I know your detailed analysis will convince me
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Post by Darth Vader on Apr 24, 2020 1:33:27 GMT
Davout
Price: 8 Emblems Type of General: Cavarly & Artillery Hybrid Starting Movement: 4 hex on Heavy Cavarly and Light Cavarly, 3 Hex on Horse Grenadiers and Armored Cars. 2 hex on heavy artillery and siege artillery. 3 hex on light artillery and rocket artillery Solid! For some, he will be good. For others, he will be very good. He is either a cavarly general with 3 good skills, or an artillery general with 3 good skills. No one in the middle tier can do what davout does. Fantastic! The perfect general to starting farming for princesses with. I'm amazed - I thought he's one of the IAP's looking good but in the end only a lucky puncher. His speed: For a starting general he's missing one move star to be fast. To see him moving 6 Hex on Heavy Cav: 2000🎖 (2 saddles + 2 Dietz) and - if heavy cavalry might be acceptably - he can't move 100% free as he's missing Leadership His output: Base Att+ +1 give high output and AssultArt - looking really nice ... But: ...- only in plain open field - one tree and the dream is over - without siege mater he will be lousy against cities - even Assault Art can't help as it doesn't rise your output - only your chance of a maximum damage - even his stat. average will be only 2% higher thanks to Assault Art - on a low base as in too many situations he will be lousy I thought- he's crap But I know your detailed analysis will convince me He isn't that bad, all that needs to be changed is the explosive skill be changed to strike or surprise and a few more stars would make him Stronger.
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Post by 𝘛𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘴𝘬𝘺 on Apr 24, 2020 2:00:34 GMT
He isn't that bad, all that needs to be changed is the explosive skill be changed to strike or surprise and a few more stars would make him Stronger. If you chance his skills he could be better for sure - but farming for textbooks takes endless in EW4 - so, because you can't change a skill your evaluation is lower than 'isn't that bad'
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 24, 2020 2:00:52 GMT
He is the only iap cavarly general with geography, so you kind of have a berthier lite when you use him, except with assualt art instead of strike. Now radetsky does start with 4 training stars, same movement, and 4 trading stars, so he also is not bad at helping with obtaining the princesses so i do see your point. On artillery, the best iap is hands down Nelson (as Moreau is pretty subpar). But I still feel as though Davout can affectively multitask. For instance, if you need a fast cavarly general (Sardinia 1815), you can always rely on davout as there are tons and tons of desert tiles in Algeria. I was going of the logic that as you only have access to one war horse early on, you probably want to give it to Sophia. Other iaps can be also fantastic for grabbing princesses, but Davout’s movement is easily the best out of all of them. You need a strong artillery general? Davout’s is available. While he can be a bit inconsistent when it comes to output, he is definitely far from a bad general. Although I do agree, surprise/explosive are only really stand out when paired with bugle or assualt art. So Poniatowski can really do what davout does while also being a fantastic naval general and having leadership. Still i do feel as Davout’s output difference over poniatowski is quite significant nevertheless. Actually... I meant Lasalle. lol It is true that Davout is one of the fastest out of all IAP cavalry guys (probably except Lasalle), but as you can see, his advantage in movement is not that significant in princess-winning conquests, namely 1798 HRE and 1775 US. I'm sure you will agree that cavalry general would be the most helpful one if we only have access to one general in these two cases. On cavalry, once Davout loses his advantage in speed, he will be nothing but a weaker Murat. He is pretty decent right out of the box, but how much "out there" is he comparing to other great cavalry generals in tier 3? As for campaigns, Davout when maxed out is absolutely a killing machine with incredible speed, but to make him stand out you have to put him on either light or heavy cavalry. On guards cavalry or armored car he becomes weaker Murat again. For a hard campaign with only light/heavy cavalry I can only come up with Road to Hell right now, but are you sure rushing 6 hex in Road to Hell isn't a fastpass to hell? For conquests then yeah 6 hex is awesome, but that's already for challenge or fun instead of getting princesses. If you need someone who is great at cavalry and artillery then Davout is certainly the way to go (unless you want Desaix). Poniatowski... I somehow never find him good. Probably because I'm too much a fan of Strike, Accurate, and Bugle. Agreed. In very hard environments, you can use him as a arty, and in conquests, you can use him as cavarly. Davout is a fast murat without spy, which is still a pretty great general. His advantage in movement isn’t that great when compared to someone like Dabrowski out of the box, and he also does start out with very annoying 2 hex movement on heavy artillery, as I am sure we all cringed at. But most of those flaws are fixable. What is not flexible is his lack of leadership and strike (or accurate). Plus in my France 1798 playthrough recently, his assualt art just kept triggering again and again and again. Sometimes 3 times in a row. He made a joke out of saltykov, suvorov, and bagration. Poniatowski is much like davout on cavarly. He has geography making him fast. His leadership is a quite great skill. Though surprise is a bit better on cavarly. Assualt art is awesome for those occasional crits. Fireproof is pretty decent when he is to defend cities or a naval general. At maximum, he is a simple general, he travels fast and he hits hard. But he is like training berthier, except making berthier good on infantry, artillery, and navy as well. But he can do everything well up to a B+ standard, making him pretty solid. Yes, that’s perfectly reasonable to like strike, accurate, and bugle. They are great skills after all.
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Post by Darth Vader on Apr 24, 2020 2:05:48 GMT
He isn't that bad, all that needs to be changed is the explosive skill be changed to strike or surprise and a few more stars would make him Stronger. If you chance his skills he could be better for sure - but farming for textbooks takes endless in EW4 - so, because you can't change a skill your evaluation is lower than 'isn't that bad' Especially the Napoleonic code which is hard to find and is very expensive.
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Post by Darth Vader on Apr 24, 2020 2:09:02 GMT
He is good general, tho I would more rather use Murat or popaloskia(polish prince) and plus a B+ Won't get you to Harvard.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 24, 2020 2:10:28 GMT
Davout
Price: 8 Emblems Type of General: Cavarly & Artillery Hybrid Starting Movement: 4 hex on Heavy Cavarly and Light Cavarly, 3 Hex on Horse Grenadiers and Armored Cars. 2 hex on heavy artillery and siege artillery. 3 hex on light artillery and rocket artillery Solid! For some, he will be good. For others, he will be very good. He is either a cavarly general with 3 good skills, or an artillery general with 3 good skills. No one in the middle tier can do what davout does. Fantastic! The perfect general to starting farming for princesses with. I'm amazed - I thought he's one of the IAP's looking good but in the end only a lucky puncher. His speed: For a starting general he's missing one move star to be fast. To see him moving 6 Hex on Heavy Cav: 2000🎖 (2 saddles + 2 Dietz) and - if heavy cavalry might be acceptably - he can't move 100% free as he's missing Leadership His output: Base Att+ +1 give high output and AssultArt - looking really nice ... But: ...- only in plain open field - one tree and the dream is over - without siege mater he will be lousy against cities - even Assault Art can't help as it doesn't rise your output - only your chance of a maximum damage - even his stat. average will be only 2% higher thanks to Assault Art - on a low base as in too many situations he will be lousy I thought- he's crap But I know your detailed analysis will convince me I think crap is a bit harsh. It seems there are two main groups of people on this forum that either think davout is hands down the best iap, and there are also people who think he is above average, but not much better. He really needs 1 diez (3 hexes on heavy/siege artillery and 4 hexes on gaurd cavarly). Afterwards, his movement will be acceptable due to geography and you can strap on two output items. Ask yourself this, who is better, Davout with Flinklock, or Radetsky with a War Horse. The result will be Davout, with the occasional occurence when Radetsky is attacking into lvl 7 cities and Davout’s assualt art didn’t trigger. And a cavarly general without a war horse is extremely frustrating to use. Furthermore, other than Davout (or the hybrid based Lannes and Poniatowski) the only other good cavarly general with geography is Berthier... a huge pain to regroup. And he is really davout w. strike instead of assualt art. A marginally better davout. Plus if you flank a tough general like suvorov with another unit, you end up with davout dealing 89 damage vs Suvorov’s puny 37. He is definitely a good general. Calling him mediocre would be a lie. I mean Sakurako has only 1 good skill on cavarly and she can be pretty good. Whether or not he is great is up to the user.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 24, 2020 2:12:06 GMT
If you chance his skills he could be better for sure - but farming for textbooks takes endless in EW4 - so, because you can't change a skill your evaluation is lower than 'isn't that bad' Especially the Napoleonic code which is hard to find and is very expensive. Napoleonic code is in the hre campaign which is far away indeed. But we do get fatimah early on.
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Post by Darth Vader on Apr 24, 2020 2:14:13 GMT
The final battle is mostly own by the person with the better tatics and strategy then army performance. Also knowing many tatics and the "ART OF WAR" will get you far.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 24, 2020 2:17:10 GMT
Murat is a fantastic general. Its just that, as I mentioned in my review, we have piles of good Murat lites we can get early in the game. Sulkowski, Sophia, Savary, Ney, and even Arnold (who I neglected a bit. i admit that having him is like having Alexander I) can all get the job done pretty well. You only really need one fortress crack. In terms of quality, murat is one of the best iaps. In terms of replicability, not so much.
As for Dabrowski, its hard to argue against him. He definitely is very consistent in his output, defense art is a welcome addition, and his stars are good. He is a fantastic general.
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Post by Darth Vader on Apr 24, 2020 2:20:39 GMT
Everyone knows not to mess with winged HUSSARS, remember the song?
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Apr 24, 2020 2:24:04 GMT
He is good general, tho I would more rather use Murat or popaloskia(polish prince) and plus a B+ Won't get you to Harvard. Depends. Davout is a for fun general as well. Its really hilarious to see his assualt art trigger and the enemy just vaporize. In reality, he usually does what is asked of him and no more. Sometimes he’ll even fail at killing city garrison. But his speed ultimately pretty much leads me to not care while I would be pulling my hair out if a general without Davout’s movement did the same. Luckilly, Lan is a fantastic princesses that manages to be a mix of poniatowski and dabrowski at the same time.
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Post by Darth Vader on Apr 24, 2020 2:26:24 GMT
The Chinese princess is great Calvary general, just needs a few more added stars
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