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Post by andrei on Apr 17, 2021 18:01:19 GMT
Yeah, I understand. So basically Petain was OK about German national-socialist ideology. Is that what You are saying? Is it OK in regards to loyalty to Your own country? I mean You support the idea he was not a traitor. Nazy suprematic ideology is quite difficult to justify when we speak about collaboration regimes. How can you say that Vichy France was not loyal to France, it was a government made and led by French, Germany barely had any influence in its internal matters, Hitler asked Petain to sign the tripartite pact, but he refused, if it was a puppet, do you think he could have done that especially it has very weak Army and has half of its territory and capital under German occupation. Vichy Government was as autonomous as Spain,Bulgaria and Italy. Anti-Semetic legislation were partially because of general antisemitism among its leaders who were right wingers and partially to show a friendship to Hitler. Right Wingers' opposition was a major reason for France not involving in Spanish Civil War because they saw Communism as a bigger threat and Franco as like-minded. As for term of Armistice, its situation was like Weimer Republic, predecessor lost in the war so it has to accept. In my opinion, it acted in the best interest of French People except Jews and other "undesirables", because it was easier for De Gaulle to shout on Radio calling for the French people to fight on, while sittung in luxury of London than continuing the Fight. What about french troops fighting against Soviets (basically Allies)? As I mentioned more than 50k french prisoners of war for Eastern front only. Not a puppet You say? |
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Post by Jeanne d'Arc on Apr 17, 2021 23:30:44 GMT
I'm back...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 0:21:23 GMT
How can you say that Vichy France was not loyal to France, it was a government made and led by French, Germany barely had any influence in its internal matters, Hitler asked Petain to sign the tripartite pact, but he refused, if it was a puppet, do you think he could have done that especially it has very weak Army and has half of its territory and capital under German occupation. Vichy Government was as autonomous as Spain,Bulgaria and Italy. Anti-Semetic legislation were partially because of general antisemitism among its leaders who were right wingers and partially to show a friendship to Hitler. Right Wingers' opposition was a major reason for France not involving in Spanish Civil War because they saw Communism as a bigger threat and Franco as like-minded. As for term of Armistice, its situation was like Weimer Republic, predecessor lost in the war so it has to accept. In my opinion, it acted in the best interest of French People except Jews and other "undesirables", because it was easier for De Gaulle to shout on Radio calling for the French people to fight on, while sittung in luxury of London than continuing the Fight. What about french troops fighting against Soviets (basically Allies)? As I mentioned more than 50k french prisoners of war for Eastern front only. Not a puppet You say? Those were voluntary recruits from pro-fascist fringe organisations who joined SS. |
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Post by Saltin on Apr 18, 2021 0:46:42 GMT
Nicely done John Marston , the newsletter looks good and is entertaining. I did a minor edit on it for clarification as mentioned earlier but other than that it's fine. It's been pinned&locked as requested. Saltin , you forgot to lock the Newsletter. BTW, how's the newsletter Saltin? |
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Post by Saltin on Apr 18, 2021 1:15:47 GMT
Jeanne d'Arc , as easy as flipping the switch ! We are glad to have you back, make yourself comfortable and be entertained or alternatively entertain the rest of us, or an even better option.. do both! 
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Post by John Marston on Apr 18, 2021 3:05:35 GMT
Nicely done John Marston , the newsletter looks good and is entertaining. I did a minor edit on it for clarification as mentioned earlier but other than that it's fine. It's been pinned&locked as requested Thanks Saltin! And just to inform you all that it was/is my birthday and I turned 15 yesterday/today (time difference, 17th April) |
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Post by andrei on Apr 18, 2021 3:54:20 GMT
What about french troops fighting against Soviets (basically Allies)? As I mentioned more than 50k french prisoners of war for Eastern front only. Not a puppet You say? Those were voluntary recruits from pro-fascist fringe organisations who joined SS. Oh, yes, so convinient. All these "not-a-puppet" countries who switched the sides in proper time  Such a strong fighters against nazism. Come on. Only Spain wasn't a puppet. Other regimes where fully supported by Germany and where overthrown right after nazy Germany collapsed. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 4:01:52 GMT
Those were voluntary recruits from pro-fascist fringe organisations who joined SS. Oh, yes, so convinient. All these "not-a-puppet" countries who switched the sides in proper time Such a strong fighters against nazism. Come on. Only Spain wasn't a puppet. Other regimes where fully supported by Germany and where overthrown right after nazy Germany collapsed. Not Vichy Regime, Hungary, Finland, Romania and Bulgaria. Vichy was occupied by Germany after operation torch. Bulgaria joined the Soviets before Germany fell, they had not have joined axis full-heartedly. Hungary have communist coup and joined Soviets before German defeat. Romanian King with help from communists ousted Antonescu before German defeat. Finland also was autonomous, though it did not became communist, they signed peace with Soviets. |
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Post by Warlord247 on Apr 18, 2021 4:07:28 GMT
I'm gonna be posting all updates to that thread That's ok. But I can't add any future works you will come up with. Only 1948 can be added. Are you planning on anything else after 1948? Nope |
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Post by Warlord247 on Apr 18, 2021 4:08:26 GMT
Nicely done John Marston , the newsletter looks good and is entertaining. I did a minor edit on it for clarification as mentioned earlier but other than that it's fine. It's been pinned&locked as requested Thanks Saltin! And just to inform you all that it was/is my birthday (time difference, 17th April) Awesome!
Moderated by Saltin : removed specific personal info.
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Post by John Marston on Apr 18, 2021 4:09:34 GMT
That's ok. But I can't add any future works you will come up with. Only 1948 can be added. Are you planning on anything else after 1948? Nope Alright. Your late anyways |
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Post by Warlord247 on Apr 18, 2021 4:20:15 GMT
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
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Post by Don Quixote de la Mancha on Apr 18, 2021 4:24:42 GMT
I mean P.tain from ww1 and ww2 are pratically 2 differet people, one was the saviour of France, the other was it's worse horror. Vichy volontarely an happily made the nazi anti-semite laws applied in French territory. He is similar to de Gaulle in many ways, so I'll bring up his quote on Pétain,
« Toute la carrière de cet homme d’exception avait été un long effort de refoulement. Trop fier pour l’intrigue, trop fort pour la médiocrité, trop ambitieux pour être arriviste, il nourrissait en sa solitude une passion de dominer, longuement durcie par la conscience de sa propre valeur, les traverses rencontrées, le mépris qu’il avait des autres. La gloire militaire lui avait, jadis, prodigué ses caresses amères. Mais elle ne l’avait pas comblé, faute de l’avoir aimé seul. Et voici que, tout à coup, dans l’extrême hiver de sa vie, les événements offraient à ses dons et à son orgueil l’occasion tant attendue de s’épanouir sans limites, à une condition, toutefois, c’est qu’il acceptât le désastre comme pavois de son élévation et le décorât de sa gloire […] Malgré tout, je suis convaincu qu’en d’autres temps, le maréchal Pétain n’aurait pas consenti à revêtir la pourpre dans l’abandon national. Je suis sûr, en tout cas, qu’aussi longtemps qu’il fut lui-même, il eût repris la route de la guerre dès qu’il put voir qu’il s’était trompé, que la victoire demeurait possible, que la France y aurait sa part. Mais, hélas ! Les années, par-dessous l’enveloppe, avaient rongé son caractère. L’âge le livrait aux manœuvres de gens habiles à se couvrir de sa majestueuse lassitude. La vieillesse est un naufrage. Pour que rien ne nous fût épargné, la vieillesse du maréchal Pétain allait s’identifier avec le naufrage de la France. »
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Post by John Marston on Apr 18, 2021 4:33:57 GMT
Thank you |
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Post by stoic on Apr 18, 2021 4:55:32 GMT
Btw, about Resistance... It is not a secret what was ideology of the movement. The majority were communists, do we like it or not...
"Until June, 1941, when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, there was no resistance at all inside France. The majority of the French supported the pro-Fascist Vichy government of Marshal Henri Petain. De Gaulle discouraged acts of terrorism by his followers for fear of reprisals against innocent civilians. The Communist Party was not going to attack Germans so long as the Soviet Union had a nonaggression treaty with Germany.
After the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union, however, the Communists began the French Resistance. A large number of their recruits were young immigrants, many of them workers with Communist backgrounds"
Just an example of a typical resistance cell:
In February, 1944, the Nazi occupation force, preparing to execute 23 members of the French Resistance.
Not one had a French name: Manouchian, Grzywacz, Elek, Wasjbrot, Witchitz, Fingerweig, Boczov, Fontanot, Alfonso, Rayman. All were immigrants. The Germans identified the leader, Missack Manouchian, as Armenian, and the others as five Polish Jews, two Hungarian Jews, one Italian and one Spaniard. All were Communists.
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Such a strong fighters against nazism. 
