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Post by Friedrich โFried Riceโ Paulus on Mar 19, 2021 19:36:59 GMT
Sokolniki. Accuracy and engineering are such an OP combo for an artillery general. Somehow Scharnhorst gets all the love Sokolniki is ignored (because he isnt a trainer). Berthier has been discussed repeatedly in the forum, some believe ge is the best, others the worst. No one talks about Sokolnicki because you need another 860 medals to match Scharnhorst's level. If you are going for an all tier-1 lineup then Sokolnicki and Junot are mandatory. Berthier is for conquest lovers. I don't find this skill useful on cavalry (even artillery) in campaigns. You canโt even get sokolnicki to scharnhorstโs level as scharnhorst as 3 training stars whereas sokolnicki 0. I would rather use vanilla scharnhorst rather than a maxed out sokolnicki |
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Post by littlecorporal on Mar 19, 2021 22:39:38 GMT
Re: the war horse- when the solution is standard game play (share a single war horse) its not that big of a problem.
While I get your point about not getting charged and having morale drop, I think you underestimate the value of being able to go behind and deep into enemy lines. You want Lan to be surrounded by as many enemies as possible to maximize her attacks of oppurtunity.
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Post by littlecorporal on Mar 19, 2021 23:58:15 GMT
No one talks about Sokolnicki because you need another 860 medals to match Scharnhorst's level. If you are going for an all tier-1 lineup then Sokolnicki and Junot are mandatory. Berthier is for conquest lovers. I don't find this skill useful on cavalry (even artillery) in campaigns. You canโt even get sokolnicki to scharnhorstโs level as scharnhorst as 3 training stars whereas sokolnicki 0. I would rather use vanilla scharnhorst rather than a maxed out sokolnicki Me too, of course! I wasn't saying he was better, just that he is similar and seldom mentioned as a top artillery general, therefore 'underrated'. |
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Post by ๐๐ณ๐ฐ๐ต๐ด๐ฌ๐บ on Mar 20, 2021 3:00:40 GMT
 only general better than Lan Most overrated - my comment to Berthier. Only if you don't swap items. For me he offers surprise additional - geography theoretical usable (your Berthier is still missing one Diez) on heavy cavalry - wasted: Guards cavalary has spy and +50% against ships. An AC ... This must be a desperatr situation to put a 3k๐ cavalary general on heavy cavalary. And fence ๐ My canidate: Sulkovsky on AC. |
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Post by John Marston on Mar 20, 2021 5:11:06 GMT
But Berthier is expensive to bring to that level. And do we need a general better than Lan? She will suffice I feel. These medals can be invested else where.
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Post by ๐๐ณ๐ฐ๐ต๐ด๐ฌ๐บ on Mar 20, 2021 17:52:06 GMT
But Berthier is expensive to bring to that level. And do we need a general better than Lan? She will suffice I feel. These medals can be invested else where. For my point of view Berthier is a big Fake. A reasonable general only if you don't swap items: He costs thousands! of ๐. (4000๐ for trainer on top of his basic price) After being trained to her โญ, he can offer a +3 higher average dmg than Sakurako - thats all}. If you swap items, he is imo the biggest missinvestment you can make. I would consider a new start, if you got him. On the other hand: Sulkovsky, much cheaper and usable from the beginning, has Spy instead surprise - this is the complementary skill to cover the weakness of AC against forts. He is Golitsyn without stars - and adds geography instead, this is a great deprovement. How you can see Berthier close or even better than Lan ?ยฟ? I can not understand. If somebody can explain me this please. (EW4) For my style the best Berthier can offer are his 4โญ trade (only one trainer necessary), with a flag, even Sakurako is for me better and a few k๐ cheaper - with flags. |
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Post by ๐๐ณ๐ฐ๐ต๐ด๐ฌ๐บ on Mar 21, 2021 0:53:47 GMT
Re: the war horse- when the solution is standard game play (share a single war horse) its not that big of a problem. While I get your point about not getting charged and having morale drop, I think you underestimate the value of being able to go behind and deep into enemy lines. You want Lan to be surrounded by as many enemies as possible to maximize her attacks of oppurtunity. 100% my experience: Leadership is really great for Lan. I place her to be attacked from as much as possible infanty during AI's turn - and then I whipe out the rests before to start my move. With Sakurako this can be a risk to get flanked, and in at least โ
of all turns you can't have high morale on the AI turn. Leadership make Lan great! Max +6 for surprise (3 avg) are not the game-changer for a 5โญ general with a pistol. AA is fun to have but not reliable for strategy ... and glitched for my Lan, I believe |
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Post by ๐๐ณ๐ฐ๐ต๐ด๐ฌ๐บ on Mar 21, 2021 2:22:36 GMT
And as we talk about underrated, you may know, the sakurako underrated thread, and using her, opened for me, the door to understand the game. The first skill is banner, for such a fast princess... Maybe we underestimate the usage of flags to support our allies. I mean, only with flags you can active influence the battles or health of your allies. I don't have flags, but Sakurako stands more times close to allies than to my troops. AI in a battle don't attack her just for flanking, with flags she can give additional active help - as a tactics interesting I think. My favourite Nr.2 in everything - Sakurako - extreme reliable. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Mar 21, 2021 2:51:38 GMT
But Berthier is expensive to bring to that level. And do we need a general better than Lan? She will suffice I feel. These medals can be invested else where. For my point of view Berthier is a big Fake. A reasonable general only if you don't swap items: He costs thousands! of ๐. (4000๐ for trainer on top of his basic price) After being trained to her โญ, he can offer a +3 higher average dmg than Sakurako - thats all}. If you swap items, he is imo the biggest missinvestment you can make. I would consider a new start, if you got him. On the other hand: Sulkovsky, much cheaper and usable from the beginning, has Spy instead surprise - this is the complementary skill to cover the weakness of AC against forts. He is Golitsyn without stars - and adds geography instead, this is a great deprovement. How you can see Berthier close or even better than Lan ?ยฟ? I can not understand. If somebody can explain me this please. (EW4) For my style the best Berthier can offer are his 4โญ trade (only one trainer necessary), with a flag, even Sakurako is for me better and a few k๐ cheaper - with flags. If you really, really, really need to run 6 grids on light/heavy cavalry then Berthier is better, but that only exists in conquests and I think 5 will suffice in most cases if not all. |
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Post by John Marston on Mar 21, 2021 4:12:18 GMT
But Berthier is expensive to bring to that level. And do we need a general better than Lan? She will suffice I feel. These medals can be invested else where. For my point of view Berthier is a big Fake. A reasonable general only if you don't swap items: He costs thousands! of ๐. (4000๐ for trainer on top of his basic price) After being trained to her โญ, he can offer a +3 higher average dmg than Sakurako - thats all}. If you swap items, he is imo the biggest missinvestment you can make. I would consider a new start, if you got him. On the other hand: Sulkovsky, much cheaper and usable from the beginning, has Spy instead surprise - this is the complementary skill to cover the weakness of AC against forts. He is Golitsyn without stars - and adds geography instead, this is a great deprovement. How you can see Berthier close or even better than Lan ?ยฟ? I can not understand. If somebody can explain me this please. (EW4) For my style the best Berthier can offer are his 4โญ trade (only one trainer necessary), with a flag, even Sakurako is for me better and a few k๐ cheaper - with flags. I completely agree with you. Berthier is a waste of medals. I meant about Friedrich โFried Riceโ Paulus's statement about the only general better than lan. |
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Post by Friedrich โFried Riceโ Paulus on Mar 21, 2021 15:07:22 GMT
only general better than Lan Most overrated - my comment to Berthier. Only if you don't swap items. For me he offers surprise additional - geography theoretical usable (your Berthier is still missing one Diez) on heavy cavalry - wasted: Guards cavalary has spy and +50% against ships. An AC ... This must be a desperatr situation to put a 3k๐ cavalary general on heavy cavalary. And fence ๐ My canidate: Sulkovsky on AC. I mean for a non s&l player and no swapping items, berthierโs damage is absolutely ridiculous with a cavarly pistol and snair drum. You would see him doing 100+ damage on heavy cavarly all the time. And since he has good training stars unlike golitsyn, he has good survivability too. Plus he does start with 3 training stars. You can use him on artillery like I did on my new run and since he has geography and 4 artillery stars, he actually is a pretty good artillery general. Plus he ainโt that expensive. He just needs 3 diezes and 4 aghas. He is about the price of lan and sophia at max. |
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Post by littlecorporal on Mar 21, 2021 15:41:30 GMT
This is such a great forum! I really like the different perspectives and styles of play. Not sure you convinced me but I at least get where you are coming from.
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Post by ๐๐ณ๐ฐ๐ต๐ด๐ฌ๐บ on Mar 21, 2021 16:28:49 GMT
Most overrated - my comment to Berthier. Only if you don't swap items. For me he offers surprise additional - geography theoretical usable (your Berthier is still missing one Diez) on heavy cavalry - wasted: Guards cavalary has spy and +50% against ships. An AC ... This must be a desperatr situation to put a 3k๐ cavalary general on heavy cavalary. And fence ๐ My canidate: Sulkovsky on AC. I mean for a non s&l player and no swapping items, berthierโs damage is absolutely ridiculous with a cavarly pistol and snair drum. You would see him doing 100+ damage on heavy cavarly all the time. And since he has good training stars unlike golitsyn, he has good survivability too. Plus he does start with 3 training stars. You can use him on artillery like I did on my new run and since he has geography and 4 artillery stars, he actually is a pretty good artillery general. Plus he ainโt that expensive. He just needs 3 diezes and 4 aghas. He is about the price of lan and sophia at max. You convinced me a time ago, that for non-item-swapping Berthier can be reasonable Friedrich โFried Riceโ Paulus. I try to have this note in my, quite hard, evaluations for Berthier. You have to see that heavy cavalary is the corresponding unit to light-artillery (price, movement-gap). And to have additonal spy+, just for the basic unit, make heavy cavalary a pretty bad choice for a top general. Medals for trainer are not a big problem, the aviabilty of Diez is one. I did again 10 refresh yesterday - no Diez for Isabella, since much more than a (two) month! |
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Post by Friedrich โFried Riceโ Paulus on Mar 21, 2021 17:16:50 GMT
I mean for a non s&l player and no swapping items, berthierโs damage is absolutely ridiculous with a cavarly pistol and snair drum. You would see him doing 100+ damage on heavy cavarly all the time. And since he has good training stars unlike golitsyn, he has good survivability too. Plus he does start with 3 training stars. You can use him on artillery like I did on my new run and since he has geography and 4 artillery stars, he actually is a pretty good artillery general. Plus he ainโt that expensive. He just needs 3 diezes and 4 aghas. He is about the price of lan and sophia at max. You convinced me a time ago, that for non-item-swapping Berthier can be reasonable Friedrich โFried Riceโ Paulus. I try to have this note in my, quite hard, evaluations for Berthier. You have to see that heavy cavalary is the corresponding unit to light-artillery (price, movement-gap). And to have additonal spy+, just for the basic unit, make heavy cavalary a pretty bad choice for a top general. Medals for trainer are not a big problem, the aviabilty of Diez is one. I did again 10 refresh yesterday - no Diez for Isabella, since much more than a (two) month! Ironically for me, I got diez 3 times in a row when farming for berthier. I could not get agha or quesandovah. If heavy cavarly is given right away, I will use the heavy cavarly. For heavy and armored cars, generals with spy are also very good as then they will be well balanced against everything. Hence ney, savary, and sophia, murat, and sulkowski make great cavarly generals. Berthier is pretty good but the farming for him is pretty ridiculous. Iโd get him if you have more than 4 slots and if you get another cavarly general like golitsyn or sulkowski first. |
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Post by littlecorporal on Mar 22, 2021 1:20:11 GMT
Regarding switching items, once my generals get to 150/10 I hardly ever switch items. By that time I am doing mostly fun conquests so less pressure to be perfect. Generally I pick 2 good items for the generals but occasionally switch out for tents or napoleanic code. It's a different style of play than obsessively seeking out every minute advantage.
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