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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Apr 20, 2021 18:43:12 GMT
Guderian: Absolutely perfect. Tide of Iron for Army Group Center and Fall Gelb and Blitzkrieg for France (as well as inventing Blitzkrieg). Anti-Armor is for all the encirclements of AG Center when they absolutely rekked those T-34s.
Rommel: Trade ToI for Armored Assault. "Tide of Iron" implies that there were a lot of units, when Rommel, not having those, preferred to go on a huge thrust through the battlefield, an "Armored Assault."
Patton: Trade Accuracy Strike for Passion. I will assume Accuracy Strike refers to the raid on the POW camp in Germany. However, I believe "Passion" embodies both that and his relentless drive.
MacArthur: Take out the two Arty stars and give him two Navy stars. Trade his Raider for Reserve, and he is perfect, symbolizing the huge reserves the US had in the S. Pacific Campaign, and Navy Stars for his Amphibious landings.
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Post by HangryBird on Apr 20, 2021 21:32:16 GMT
By this logic, all generals should have leadership and training.
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Post by 曹操 on Apr 20, 2021 23:30:44 GMT
By this logic, all generals should have leadership and training. Von Bock get leadership for his command of AG North, AG Center, AG South |
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Post by HangryBird on Apr 20, 2021 23:53:44 GMT
By this logic, all generals should have leadership and training. Von Bock get leadership for his command of AG North, AG Center, AG South What about generals that held more commands, like Model, who commanded Army Group North, Army Group North Ukraine, Army Group Centre, Army Group B, OB West? Or generals that already have it, like Kreuger, who only commanded Sixth United States Army, Third United States Army, VIII Corps, 2nd Infantry Division? |
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Post by 曹操 on Apr 21, 2021 1:15:20 GMT
Von Bock get leadership for his command of AG North, AG Center, AG South What about generals that held more commands, like Model, who commanded Army Group North, Army Group North Ukraine, Army Group Centre, Army Group B, OB West? Or generals that already have it, like Kreuger, who only commanded Sixth United States Army, Third United States Army, VIII Corps, 2nd Infantry Division? Model mostly lead defensive operation unlike Bock who mostly command offensive operation. And some of his unit seems like seeing him as incompetent on leadership unlike during him as defense commander and His Army Group are hardly managed to get reserve and supply different from Bock's command where he still least easy to get reserve and supply. Meanwhile Krueger get leadership since the US manage to give tons of reserve for his army unlike Model's Army |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 1:16:41 GMT
What about generals that held more commands, like Model, who commanded Army Group North, Army Group North Ukraine, Army Group Centre, Army Group B, OB West? Or generals that already have it, like Kreuger, who only commanded Sixth United States Army, Third United States Army, VIII Corps, 2nd Infantry Division? Model mostly lead defensive operation unlike Bock who mostly command offensive operation. And some of his unit seems like seeing him as incompetent on leadership unlike during him as defense commander and His Army Group are hardly managed to get reserve and supply different from Bock's command where he still least easy to get reserve and supply. Meanwhile Krueger get leadership since the US manage to give tons of reserve for his army unlike Model's Army At least Citadel was an offensive. |
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Post by HangryBird on Apr 21, 2021 1:31:01 GMT
What about generals that held more commands, like Model, who commanded Army Group North, Army Group North Ukraine, Army Group Centre, Army Group B, OB West? Or generals that already have it, like Kreuger, who only commanded Sixth United States Army, Third United States Army, VIII Corps, 2nd Infantry Division? Model mostly lead defensive operation unlike Bock who mostly command offensive operation. And some of his unit seems like seeing him as incompetent on leadership unlike during him as defense commander and His Army Group are hardly managed to get reserve and supply different from Bock's command where he still least easy to get reserve and supply. Meanwhile Krueger get leadership since the US manage to give tons of reserve for his army unlike Model's Army I'm sorry, but I don't understand your argument at all. Why do more offensive-orientated generals deserve leadership more? What do reserves have to do with Leadership? If anything, reserves should make a general deserve the reserve skill, like MacArthur in Gerd von Rundstedt 's idea. |
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Post by 曹操 on Apr 21, 2021 5:20:54 GMT
Model mostly lead defensive operation unlike Bock who mostly command offensive operation. And some of his unit seems like seeing him as incompetent on leadership unlike during him as defense commander and His Army Group are hardly managed to get reserve and supply different from Bock's command where he still least easy to get reserve and supply. Meanwhile Krueger get leadership since the US manage to give tons of reserve for his army unlike Model's Army I'm sorry, but I don't understand your argument at all. Why do more offensive-orientated generals deserve leadership more? What do reserves have to do with Leadership? If anything, reserves should make a general deserve the reserve skill, like MacArthur in Gerd von Rundstedt 's idea. Since in game Leadership has similar effect just like reserve so I just decided to put Supply and reserve as one of Leadership factor. Second, about defensive and offensive general. If the general are more keen on Offensive operation then it has a competent leadership. Example Because of Red Army Gen incompetent on 1941 most of The Red Army must take on defensive. Gen like Vatutin, konev,and Zhukov Could get leadership skill unlike Guderian and Manstein they lead a larger Army (Ukrainian Front and belarusian Front) meanwhile Guderian and Manstein is just a panzer corps/Group commander |
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Post by HangryBird on Apr 21, 2021 5:29:14 GMT
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your argument at all. Why do more offensive-orientated generals deserve leadership more? What do reserves have to do with Leadership? If anything, reserves should make a general deserve the reserve skill, like MacArthur in Gerd von Rundstedt 's idea. Since in game Leadership has similar effect just like reserve so I just decided to put Supply and reserve as one of Leadership factor. Second, about defensive and offensive general. If the general are more keen on Offensive operation then it has a competent leadership. Example Because of Red Army Gen incompetent on 1941 most of The Red Army must take on defensive. Gen like Vatutin, konev,and Zhukov Could get leadership skill unlike Guderian and Manstein they lead a larger Army (Ukrainian Front and belarusian Front) meanwhile Guderian and Manstein is just a panzer corps/Group commander You're going to need to elaborate on why being keen on offense equates to better leadership and how in-game skills are evidence that leadership should be judged on supplies and reserves. Lastly, Leadership and Reserve are very different. The first decreases the cost of recruiting and the second increases the HP healed when replenishing. |
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Post by 曹操 on Apr 21, 2021 5:37:11 GMT
Since in game Leadership has similar effect just like reserve so I just decided to put Supply and reserve as one of Leadership factor. Second, about defensive and offensive general. If the general are more keen on Offensive operation then it has a competent leadership. Example Because of Red Army Gen incompetent on 1941 most of The Red Army must take on defensive. Gen like Vatutin, konev,and Zhukov Could get leadership skill unlike Guderian and Manstein they lead a larger Army (Ukrainian Front and belarusian Front) meanwhile Guderian and Manstein is just a panzer corps/Group commander You're going to need to elaborate on why being keen on offense equates to better leadership and how in-game skills are evidence that leadership should be judged on supplies and reserves. Lastly, Leadership and Reserve are very different. The first decreases the cost of recruiting and the second increases the HP healed when replenishing. Wait what? |
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Post by 曹操 on Apr 21, 2021 5:38:01 GMT
You're going to need to elaborate on why being keen on offense equates to better leadership and how in-game skills are evidence that leadership should be judged on supplies and reserves. Lastly, Leadership and Reserve are very different. The first decreases the cost of recruiting and the second increases the HP healed when replenishing. Wait what? It seem i had mistaken leadership since i rarely used general with leadership |
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Post by 曹操 on Apr 21, 2021 6:01:13 GMT
about defensive and offensive general. If the general are more keen on Offensive operation then it has a competent leadership. Example Because of Red Army Gen incompetent on 1941 most of The Red Army must take on defensive. Gen like Vatutin, konev,and Zhukov Could get leadership skill unlike Guderian and Manstein they lead a larger Army (Ukrainian Front and belarusian Front) meanwhile Guderian and Manstein is just a panzer corps/Group commander You're going to need to elaborate on why being keen on offense equates to better leadership . Anyway, lets say about fall gelb German are on offensive and French are on defensive. The French can be also on offensive and German on defensive since French has better quality of troops (Their tanks are better than Germans tanks) but due to Most of French Incompetent General leadership, they fail and must go on defensive position at least for a few weeks until paris fall. German competent leadership under Von Rundstedt, Rommel, Guderian, Manstein, Bock, Von Leeb managed to make a huge offensive and they never did an defensive operation since their competent of leadership managed to use their troops wisely to pushed the French troops into their defeat. But unlike on early years, Hitler decide to fire most competent generals like Guderian, Bock, Leeb, Rundstedt making the rest of the whole war is on defensive position. This is different for Japan, they are keen on defensive because lack of Resource and outdated tech. Moreover Bock is more keen on commanding Army Group on most of WW2 thats why he didn't get any support skill for his abilities (ToI,AA,etc) but he get leadership for commanding AG B,North,South,Center) also he didn't command single type of units . And General like Alexander, Wavell, Eishenhower, are the one who might get leadership for their success offensive and also commanding a huge army Alexander (North Africa) Wavell (Middle East and East Africa), Eishenhower (Normandy, Mediteranian,North Africa) |
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Post by HangryBird on Apr 21, 2021 7:01:08 GMT
You're going to need to elaborate on why being keen on offense equates to better leadership . Anyway, lets say about fall gelb German are on offensive and French are on defensive. The French can be also on offensive and German on defensive since French has better quality of troops (Their tanks are better than Germans tanks) but due to Most of French Incompetent General leadership, they fail and must go on defensive position at least for a few weeks until paris fall. German competent leadership under Von Rundstedt, Rommel, Guderian, Manstein, Bock, Von Leeb managed to make a huge offensive and they never did an defensive operation since their competent of leadership managed to use their troops wisely to pushed the French troops into their defeat. But unlike on early years, Hitler decide to fire most competent generals like Guderian, Bock, Leeb, Rundstedt making the rest of the whole war is on defensive position. This is different for Japan, they are keen on defensive because lack of Resource and outdated tech. Moreover Bock is more keen on commanding Army Group on most of WW2 thats why he didn't get any support skill for his abilities (ToI,AA,etc) but he get leadership for commanding AG B,North,South,Center) also he didn't command single type of units . And General like Alexander, Wavell, Eishenhower, are the one who might get leadership for their success offensive and also commanding a huge army Alexander (North Africa) Wavell (Middle East and East Africa), Eishenhower (Normandy, Mediteranian,North Africa) It wasn't just bad leadership that doomed the Germans: less manpower, industry, and resources were the main factors. The Allies also made bad decisions like the Germans, but unlike the Allies, the Germans couldn't afford to make mistakes. Just because the Germans were on the defense, didn't mean they didn't have good leadership. For example, Kesselring is considered a good general for his defense of Italy, but he was on defense, not offense. Under your definition, due to Kesselring being defensive, he would be considered to have badly led his troops. If you are going to make the argument that generals that deserve Leadership are generals who successfully commanded large armies, then I don't know how you justify why generals like Model don't get the skill, but generals like Kreuger do. This is because you never addressed how in-game skills are evidence that leadership should be judged on supplies and reserves. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 7:04:59 GMT
Since in game Leadership has similar effect just like reserve so I just decided to put Supply and reserve as one of Leadership factor. Second, about defensive and offensive general. If the general are more keen on Offensive operation then it has a competent leadership. Example Because of Red Army Gen incompetent on 1941 most of The Red Army must take on defensive. Gen like Vatutin, konev,and Zhukov Could get leadership skill unlike Guderian and Manstein they lead a larger Army (Ukrainian Front and belarusian Front) meanwhile Guderian and Manstein is just a panzer corps/Group commander You're going to need to elaborate on why being keen on offense equates to better leadership and how in-game skills are evidence that leadership should be judged on supplies and reserves. Lastly, Leadership and Reserve are very different. The first decreases the cost of recruiting and the second increases the HP healed when replenishing. So Mannerheim was incompetent General? |
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Post by 曹操 on Apr 21, 2021 7:18:36 GMT
You're going to need to elaborate on why being keen on offense equates to better leadership and how in-game skills are evidence that leadership should be judged on supplies and reserves. Lastly, Leadership and Reserve are very different. The first decreases the cost of recruiting and the second increases the HP healed when replenishing. So Mannerheim was incompetent General? Forgot to mention about outnumbered |
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