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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Oct 6, 2021 19:27:59 GMT
Probably yes, but atleast fast generals are fun to use lol Yeah, that's true, I like speedrunning with Generals like Yamashita. Mobility is also the biggest reason why I sold Graziani for Rokossovsky. But I will say, mobility matters a lot more for infantry and artillery generals than it does for tanks I can give you my own opinion on Timošenko tomorrow when I have more time if you want btw. I think he's a really interesting general worth discussing. |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 6, 2021 19:28:45 GMT
In terms of completimg the game, I think Machinist is the opposite. Next to useless in conquest, but as Gerd von Rundstedt said, a godsend in scenario. Usually in conquest the main danger has been blunt already before your generals die, except for some really hard conquests like South Korea of course. Bjt you can get the same achievement with North Korea. But then in scenario it is super useful on Guderian. Yes, Guderian oneshots enemies and has 90% chance to avoid retaliation, but enemy generals and spam still hit very hard in some scenarios. Max level Machinist will get you 190 hp. That is for sure more than max level Cover would give. For Cover to save you that much hp, you should be dealt to around 2000 damage in 20 turns. Despite its usefulness, I am not willing to sacrifice PL, AA, BK, or Rumour for it and that's why I'm not buying Graziani. Also it's the most useful with Guderian who is often the last man standing. Wait, it recovers 190 hp? Dang, I must have been using the wrong skill on Guderian in the past, cause I originally thought it only went up by +3 increments lmao I gotta go back and investigate |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 6, 2021 19:29:34 GMT
I can give you my own opinion on Timošenko tomorrow when I have more time if you want btw. I think he's a really interesting general worth discussing. Sure, I have extra time tomorrow, so I would love to hear your opinion. |
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Oct 6, 2021 19:51:04 GMT
In terms of completimg the game, I think Machinist is the opposite. Next to useless in conquest, but as Gerd von Rundstedt said, a godsend in scenario. Usually in conquest the main danger has been blunt already before your generals die, except for some really hard conquests like South Korea of course. Bjt you can get the same achievement with North Korea. But then in scenario it is super useful on Guderian. Yes, Guderian oneshots enemies and has 90% chance to avoid retaliation, but enemy generals and spam still hit very hard in some scenarios. Max level Machinist will get you 190 hp. That is for sure more than max level Cover would give. For Cover to save you that much hp, you should be dealt to around 2000 damage in 20 turns. Despite its usefulness, I am not willing to sacrifice PL, AA, BK, or Rumour for it and that's why I'm not buying Graziani. Also it's the most useful with Guderian who is often the last man standing. Wait, it recovers 190 hp? Dang, I must have been using the wrong skill on Guderian in the past, cause I originally thought it only went up by +3 increments lmao I gotta go back and investigate Yeah, but it has to be max level with the medal and it takes 20 turns as I said. |
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Oct 6, 2021 19:51:49 GMT
Wait, it recovers 190 hp? Dang, I must have been using the wrong skill on Guderian in the past, cause I originally thought it only went up by +3 increments lmao I gotta go back and investigate Yeah, but it has to be max level with the medal and it takes 20 turns as I said. It is also one reason that makes Machinist much better in endgame where you have the medal and medals to upgrade it. |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 6, 2021 20:04:47 GMT
Yeah, but it has to be max level with the medal and it takes 20 turns as I said. Ah, I see. I guess I didn't like Machinist because Graziani only had level 3 machinist. I gotta max it on someone to see how well it actually works |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 6, 2021 21:00:58 GMT
Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov , I made a table of cost efficiencies for all the native (ie. non-hybrid) tank generals in this game. Here's the table. I included all of Rommel's discounted values and the approximate medal value of Manstein. This table won't be very useful for mid to endgame players, but new players could find this useful. 
Interestingly, cost efficiency goes down when the generals get better (probably cause they have more hybrid traits). Vatutin's starting tank value is higher than most of the Gold generals' starting values, and Rommel's value is really good even at only a 20% discount. Should I make charts for all the generals, and then do a separate post? Cause this could be really helpful to newer players who haven't gotten a reliable source of medals yet.
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Post by Kliment Jefremovitš Vorošilov on Oct 7, 2021 4:47:02 GMT
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 7, 2021 14:22:47 GMT
Thanks, in that case I'll make a separate post later for all the tank, navy, and artillery generals. |
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Post by micky on Oct 7, 2021 22:28:51 GMT
s/l is when you hit enemy and if you don't like outcome (e.g. no skill triggered), you can leave game, rejoin and hit again, i mentioned it in a thread - how to hit without getting hit back Thanks. I remember reading your thread but did not remember the term. |
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Post by journeykeen on Oct 8, 2021 0:15:25 GMT
I like explosives, but I think that some generals really aren't suited for Assault, so putting explosives may not be as good for them as say, a typical damage-increasing skill, and while I don't like Machinist either, some generals could benefit from this if they have a relatively low damage output, or are designed to tank a lot of hits what is the point of having generals not suited for assault, all the best generals are good because of their high damage output. those 'support' or 'tanky' generals are just bad in general. All these generals like guderian, rommel, konev, leeb, rokossovsky benefit from explosives. if you look at alternative skills, there are none which are that useful. This reply explains my thinking! Other than AF gens, who should, for the most part, be well behind lines anyway, what is the point of a defensive or non “assault” general? Offense in WC4 is literally everything. In campaigns where you need to actually defend a point, rumor takes care of it all. |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Oct 8, 2021 14:39:06 GMT
This reply explains my thinking! Other than AF gens, who should, for the most part, be well behind lines anyway, what is the point of a defensive or non “assault” general? Offense in WC4 is literally everything. In campaigns where you need to actually defend a point, rumor takes care of it all. Yeah, in the year that I used Graziani I only really found him useful for one thing: USA conquests, where you have to hold cities in Spain and Japan initially until you can build up your income. That's it. And he's not even super great at it, he just saves me money cause I can put him in a city instead of building a new armoured car every few rounds. |
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