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Post by Nobunaga Oda on May 18, 2022 15:05:57 GMT
That's the thing, you don't.
You're tiny, militarily and economically weak, and surrounded by big Arab-Muslim states.
In all seriousness, IMO, you should play as English Expedition and Cilicia, followed by any of the remaining Crusader states. Perhaps Tripoli may fare better than the other three.
If the Byzantine Empire of this era is the Latin Empire established after the Fourth Crusade, it can be either before or after England in terms of ease.
You face powerful foes beyond your league, unless you're the Latin (Byzantine) Empire. You need to wait for foreign intervention (read: the Third Crusade) to reinforce you while taking advantage of local circumstances (Cilicia's geography, the Ayyubid-Zengid War, etc.).
When help comes, send troops to steal open cities, allied, neutral or hostile. This is the easiest way to develop, assuming you live.
Deploying your own gens, especially Justinian-Theodora and Belisarius-Narses, will greatly benefit you.
Enemies faced:
Cilicia - Beylik of Anatolia. Indirect threat of moderate to low priority. Zengid Dynasty, perhaps High priority target to defend against and protect Antioch from.
England - None at the start, but clearly the Ayyubid Dynasty. Direct target past the sea with vulnerable cities along the way to Jerusalem.
Byzantine Empire - None at the start, I think, but clearly Rûm and perhaps the Ayyibid at Cyprus. Direct targets, even Nicosia because the Crusader states are expected to fall. Rûm is a high priority target whose fall opens up the land route into the Middle East.
The HRE and French Crusaders may turn on you eventually, but if Rûm is beaten swiftly, is taking over Bulgarian lands really that hard?
Antioch and Tripoli - Zengid and Ayyubid Dynasties. High priority, neighbouring targets almost guaranteed to wipe you out very quickly if you lack a staunch defence. Perhaps a counterattack into the exposed Ayyubid lands along the Levant may prove to benefit you? That is, if you have the troops and resources.
Can you survive until the two go to war?
Jerusalem - Ayyubid Dynasty. Hostile, high priority neighbour who will try to wipe you out. Can you survive until English troops lands in Cyrenaica and Egypt, and the war with the Zengids break out?
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Post by nikomachos on May 18, 2022 16:34:35 GMT
imo antioch and tripoli are by far easier than cilicia bc rum are going after you instead of byzanz. and you dont have the ressources to make them help you, join war. but if you wipe the rum instead of zengid it triggers the arrival of seljuk so keep 1 territory city of them alive as long as possible. let byzantines take it if they finally get their courage to do STH xD
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Post by playeruser37 on May 18, 2022 17:36:13 GMT
That's the thing, you don't. You're tiny, militarily and economically weak, and surrounded by big Arab-Muslim states.
In all seriousness, IMO, you should play as English Expedition and Cilicia, followed by any of the remaining Crusader states. Perhaps Tripoli may fare better than the other three. If the Byzantine Empire of this era is the Latin Empire established after the Fourth Crusade, it can be either before or after England in terms of ease. You face powerful foes beyond your league, unless you're the Latin (Byzantine) Empire. You need to wait for foreign intervention (read: the Third Crusade) to reinforce you while taking advantage of local circumstances (Cilicia's geography, the Ayyubid-Zengid War, etc.). When help comes, send troops to steal open cities, allied, neutral or hostile. This is the easiest way to develop, assuming you live. Deploying your own gens, especially Justinian-Theodora and Belisarius-Narses, will greatly benefit you.
Enemies faced: Cilicia - Beylik of Anatolia. Indirect threat of moderate to low priority. Zengid Dynasty, perhaps High priority target to defend against and protect Antioch from. England - None at the start, but clearly the Ayyubid Dynasty. Direct target past the sea with vulnerable cities along the way to Jerusalem. Byzantine Empire - None at the start, I think, but clearly Rûm and perhaps the Ayyibid at Cyprus. Direct targets, even Nicosia because the Crusader states are expected to fall. Rûm is a high priority target whose fall opens up the land route into the Middle East. The HRE and French Crusaders may turn on you eventually, but if Rûm is beaten swiftly, is taking over Bulgarian lands really that hard? Antioch and Tripoli - Zengid and Ayyubid Dynasties. High priority, neighbouring targets almost guaranteed to wipe you out very quickly if you lack a staunch defence. Perhaps a counterattack into the exposed Ayyubid lands along the Levant may prove to benefit you? That is, if you have the troops and resources. Can you survive until the two go to war? Jerusalem - Ayyubid Dynasty. Hostile, high priority neighbour who will try to wipe you out. Can you survive until English troops lands in Cyrenaica and Egypt, and the war with the Zengids break out?
. I woned hegemony as Kingdom of Jerusalem , and IT is not too hard because i sended Alfred on noble cavalery and Baldwin in The east , and i launched a full scale atack in The Ayyubid Dynasty . |
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Post by andrei on May 18, 2022 18:01:46 GMT
imo antioch and tripoli are by far easier than cilicia bc rum are going after you instead of byzanz. and you dont have the ressources to make them help you, join war. but if you wipe the rum instead of zengid it triggers the arrival of seljuk so keep 1 territory city of them alive as long as possible. let byzantines take it if they finally get their courage to do STH xD Iirc Tripoly is the only among those mentioned starting without the castle, means You can't deploy Your best cannon straight away. So imo Tripoly is the hardest. But I haven't played it yet. Was about to start it btw. |
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Post by nikomachos on May 18, 2022 20:03:06 GMT
imo antioch and tripoli are by far easier than cilicia bc rum are going after you instead of byzanz. and you dont have the ressources to make them help you, join war. but if you wipe the rum instead of zengid it triggers the arrival of seljuk so keep 1 territory city of them alive as long as possible. let byzantines take it if they finally get their courage to do STH xD Iirc Tripoly is the only among those mentioned starting without the castle, means You can't deploy Your best cannon straight away. So imo Tripoly is the hardest. But I haven't played it yet. Was about to start it btw. yeah there is that. but you are still allowed to finish off the zengid and grow before triggering seljuks who are rly aggressive. and the castle to deploy is right there on the horizon... yesss, with its soldier attacking you xD. have fun  |
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Post by awsome4444 on May 18, 2022 20:07:28 GMT
Cilca is the worse country you can play as by far. Intially to achieve your objectives you have to march through the Zengid, which means declaring war. It gets even better, all the muslim countries on the entire f**king map will declare war on you and you will be overextended and destroyed by enemy spam. |
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Post by nikomachos on May 18, 2022 22:22:19 GMT
playing Jerusalem: have you forsaken me?
when playing as jerusalem what triggers the arrival of the crusaders? because they did not show up for me at all. or rather what did i do that triggerd the crusade to turn around and go home and not show up, haha.
1.5 update thread player states that barbarossa arrived late in turn 16. France in 20 in one case.
Do i have to loose the holy city to ayyubid first so that the cruasaders show up? bc i didnt. i might try this another time but pls if you have input on this: why did no one arrive for the holy crusade?
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Post by andrei on May 18, 2022 22:24:44 GMT
playing Jerusalem: have you forsaken me? when playing as jerusalem what triggers the arrival of the crusaders? because they did not show up for me at all. or rather what did i do that triggerd the crusade to turn around and go home and not show up, haha. 1.5 update thread player states that barbarossa arrived late in turn 16. France in 20 in one case. Do i have to loose the holy city to ayyubid first so that the cruasaders show up? bc i didnt. i might try this another time but pls if you have input on this: why did no one arrive for the holy crusade? When I was playing as Tripoly I captured empty city from Jerusalem and it also prevented Barbarossa from appearance. France appeared only after the annihilation of the Jerusalem as a nation completely. It happened in the very end of my conquest. I allied Abbasids and they killed Jerusalem when I was finishing the Seljuks. I assume in case Jerusalem survives France could never appear as well. |
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Post by nikomachos on May 18, 2022 22:27:30 GMT
playing Jerusalem: have you forsaken me? when playing as jerusalem what triggers the arrival of the crusaders? because they did not show up for me at all. or rather what did i do that triggerd the crusade to turn around and go home and not show up, haha. 1.5 update thread player states that barbarossa arrived late in turn 16. France in 20 in one case. Do i have to loose the holy city to ayyubid first so that the cruasaders show up? bc i didnt. i might try this another time but pls if you have input on this: why did no one arrive for the holy crusade? When I was playing as Tripoly I captured empty city from Jerusalem and it also prevented Barbarossa from appearance. France appeared only after the annihilation of the Jerusalem as a nation completely. jerusalem triggers are very intricate, but confounding. i love it.  |
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Post by Voltaire on May 19, 2022 1:57:23 GMT
IMO, Antioch is the easiest by far. Ayyubids do not attack you if you are willing to take a diplomatic hit from England. If you put Justinian on consul and get the 2 diplomacy points with neutral, you will be fine and won't have to take any bribes either. Furthermore, your only enemies you really need to take care of is the Sultanate of Rum, Zengids, Erduzigids, and Anatolia/ The Zengids are really easier if you have a tank and you have considerable help on taking out of any of the other enemies. After taking them out, you can just bribe all of the other states to become your allies as Byzantines, Cicilia are already allies, and All the crusaders come with passage from where it is really easy to become allies. Also Abbasids don't attack so its easy to become their allies as well.
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carf
Staff Sergeant
A good spanakopita is all you need to defeat me.
Posts: 12 
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Post by carf on May 19, 2022 2:23:55 GMT
I was wondering if we actually know all the nation triggers. France seems to only appear past turn 20 and when Jerusalem falls, the Seljuks seem to have a trigger related to certain Muslim nations falling. For example, as the Eldigzuids (probably the easiest nation) the Seljuks only showed up after I defeated the Zengids. However, I have absolutely no idea what the HRE and whatever the nation that shows up above Georgia is.
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on May 19, 2022 3:27:02 GMT
Cilca is the worse country you can play as by far. Intially to achieve your objectives you have to march through the Zengid, which means declaring war. It gets even better, all the muslim countries on the entire f**king map will declare war on you and you will be overextended and destroyed by enemy spam. I'm doing quite well without any deployed gens, except for Justinian as the chosen Consul. Didn't go to war with the Ayyubids and stole their lands when the English or other states open its cities. Stole England's gains when the Ayyubids attack as well. Protected Antioch until I went after the Zengids with the Ayyubids and Abbasids, when I had little choice but to leave Antioch open for the Ayyubids to take over. Neutral states do not attack your troops, after all, so only Zengid's forces are the real threat. Eldiguzids only went to war because the Seljuks declared war. Rûm? I finished it off in one to two turns in Trabzon after I declared war on it. The Beylik of Anatolia has bigger fish to fry when it goes to war with Georgia. They too need to pass through Zengid lands to attack you so they are a lower priority target. HRE Crusaders-Byzantine Empire-Sultanate of Rûm-Ayyubid Dynasty four-way war? Just send two scout cav units to steal cities in Anatolia. Relations with the HRE will drop over time, but they can be bought and befriended, at a high cost. Cuman-Kipchaks? Can be bought over, at a high cost, but I chose to go to war in the end to save Georgia (failed), gain territories and a base to attack the Eldiguzids.
All in all, not easy, but not too hard if you exploit certain developments well. |
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Post by awsome4444 on May 19, 2022 3:44:25 GMT
Cilca is the worse country you can play as by far. Intially to achieve your objectives you have to march through the Zengid, which means declaring war. It gets even better, all the muslim countries on the entire f**king map will declare war on you and you will be overextended and destroyed by enemy spam. I'm doing quite well without any deployed gens, except for Justinian as the chosen Consul. Didn't go to war with the Ayyubids and stole their lands when the English or other states open its cities. Stole England's gains when the Ayyubids attack as well. Protected Antioch until I went after the Zengids with the Ayyubids and Abbasids, when I had little choice but to leave Antioch open for the Ayyubids to take over. Neutral states do not attack your troops, after all, so only Zengid's forces are the real threat. Eldiguzids only went to war because the Seljuks declared war. Rûm? I finished it off in one to two turns in Trabzon after I declared war on it. The Beylik of Anatolia has bigger fish to fry when it goes to war with Georgia. They too need to pass through Zengid lands to attack you so they are a lower priority target. HRE Crusaders-Byzantine Empire-Sultanate of Rûm-Ayyubid Dynasty four-way war? Just send two scout cav units to steal cities in Anatolia. Relations with the HRE will drop over time, but they can be bought and befriended, at a high cost. Cuman-Kipchaks? Can be bought over, at a high cost, but I chose to go to war in the end to save Georgia (failed), gain territories and a base to attack the Eldiguzids.
All in all, not easy, but not too hard if you exploit certain developments well. Nah Ayyubids still go to war with you regardless of bribing or not. I was doing well against the Zengids and almost beat him. This was until the Abbuyids simply declared war for no reason, and I was overwhelmed by their many dozens of troop stacks with Mamluks and Archers. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on May 19, 2022 3:56:49 GMT
Nah Ayyubids still go to war with you regardless of bribing or not. I was doing well against the Zengids and almost beat him. This was until the Abbuyids simply declared war for no reason, and I was overwhelmed by their many dozens of troop stacks with Mamluks and Archers. Are you sure it was for no reason? I didn't even try to ally with the Ayyubids. Simply leeched off their battlefield losses or gains they failed to seize. Plus, I simply waited until the Ayyubids and Zengids were exhausted, with the former's troops being dispersed to Anatolia and Egypt. The rate of diplomatic points gained with the Ayyubids is extremely low, even with Justinian and all the revelevant investments in foreign policy. If one crossed into their territory, it might cost 10 diplomatic points. Could this have been the case given that they are likely to sweep across the Crusader states in the Levant. |
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Post by andrei on May 25, 2022 20:29:43 GMT
Thread about how to win as a Crusader and here is how to win before the arrival of the Crusaders   |
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