mehran
First Lieutenant
Posts: 17
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Post by mehran on Sept 2, 2022 12:22:59 GMT
Hi what's your suggestion for su dingfang's troops combination and gem setup?
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Post by andrei on Sept 2, 2022 12:46:25 GMT
Hi what's your suggestion for su dingfang's troops combination and gem setup? It depends what is the way You are going to use him. Either as pure deff guy or attacker. For pure deff his special Chinese unit + deff infantry You have upgraded. For attacker it is a bit more complicated. Since he is not Outburst gen Varangian is a must. Either 2 Varangians or Varangian + transferred Two-handed swordman (the one with 35% attack boost at full legion). And obviously gems according to the setup and items You use. Either infantry stat increase or deff/attack. |
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mehran
First Lieutenant
Posts: 17
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Post by mehran on Sept 2, 2022 13:23:59 GMT
Thanks andrei it's a good suggestion And what's your idea about adding a Teutonic or Mongol raider to use his rapid March and underdog strategy is it worth? |
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Post by andrei on Sept 2, 2022 14:48:45 GMT
Thanks andrei it's a good suggestion And what's your idea about adding a Teutonic or Mongol raider to use his rapid March and underdog strategy is it worth? Nah. Power of every general is his stat. With this general it is infantry stat. Adding nonspecific unit is normally a bad idea as even though unit is good there is no synergy with general's ability. So You will benefit more from the firepower with appropriate units. With some generals it could work but not with him imo. |
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Post by nexttimebro on Sept 2, 2022 16:16:15 GMT
Madao + Best your melee infantry + best your archer for counterattacks or Madao + Madao + best of your melee infantry.
The main point is to NOT use other def infantry units because Madao legion counterattack works only when you are charged.
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Post by andrei on Sept 2, 2022 16:26:30 GMT
Madao + Best your melee infantry + best your archer for counterattacks or Madao + Madao + best of your melee infantry. The main point is to NOT use other def infantry units because Madao legion counterattack works only when you are charged. And what is the point to use Modao ONLY whose level is most likely very low when compared to other units. |
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Post by zabadanov86 on Sept 2, 2022 16:33:44 GMT
I realy dont see the point of this iap when Belisarius can perfectly do his job. And i bet Robert Bruce will be better then him.
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Post by nexttimebro on Sept 2, 2022 17:49:21 GMT
Madao + Best your melee infantry + best your archer for counterattacks or Madao + Madao + best of your melee infantry. The main point is to NOT use other def infantry units because Madao legion counterattack works only when you are charged. And what is the point to use Modao ONLY whose level is most likely very low when compared to other units. The point to use Modao is his legion skill. Together with Su Dingfang active shield, he may counterattack and destroy 2-3 attacking legions with 10% of damage for himself. Without Modao, only first unit in the legion does counterattack. Example: (Western Empire Rebellion and Excile stage 1): I didn’t attack at all, just sent Su Dingfang to the middle of enemy troops and activated his skill. As a result, he destroyed 4 enemy golden legion units only by counterattack.  |
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Post by andrei on Sept 2, 2022 18:20:59 GMT
And what is the point to use Modao ONLY whose level is most likely very low when compared to other units. The point to use Modao is his legion skill. Together with Su Dingfang active shield, he may counterattack and destroy 2-3 attacking legions with 10% of damage for himself. Without Modao, only first unit in the legion does counterattack. Example: (Western Empire Rebellion and Excile stage 1): I didn’t attack at all, just sent Su Dingfang to the middle of enemy troops and activated his skill. As a result, he destroyed 4 enemy golden legion units only by counterattack. You still haven't clarified why do we need more than 1 Modao unit. |
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Post by nexttimebro on Sept 2, 2022 19:07:22 GMT
The point to use Modao is his legion skill. Together with Su Dingfang active shield, he may counterattack and destroy 2-3 attacking legions with 10% of damage for himself. Without Modao, only first unit in the legion does counterattack. Example: (Western Empire Rebellion and Excile stage 1): I didn’t attack at all, just sent Su Dingfang to the middle of enemy troops and activated his skill. As a result, he destroyed 4 enemy golden legion units only by counterattack. You still haven't clarified why do we need more than 1 Modao unit. Because other infantry units reduce charge chance of enemy troops, and melee inf or archers don’t do such damage to cavalry. |
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Post by andrei on Sept 2, 2022 20:04:50 GMT
You still haven't clarified why do we need more than 1 Modao unit. Because other infantry units reduce charge chance of enemy troops, and melee inf or archers don’t do such damage to cavalry. Could You make an example of Your math? As I see the situation You propose not to lower charge rate during AI phase of the turn so the enemy can charge and to absorb TRIPLE damage. In that case Your legion will counterattack. But in case Your legion is full counter infantry it will anyway counterattack even with 1 Modao unit. So what's the point? With charge You just accept triple damage of the enemy. It doesn't matter when he is protected with his active skill.But what during the cooldown? I don't think it is better than to use someone like Heavy Phalanx Pike. Most players have it at max level now I suppose. It brings 2 additional legion effects, one of which is additional damage to the cavalry which is very nice. And most likely Phalanx has higher stats as Modao is low level at this point. |
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Post by nexttimebro on Sept 2, 2022 21:38:21 GMT
Because other infantry units reduce charge chance of enemy troops, and melee inf or archers don’t do such damage to cavalry. Could You make an example of Your math? As I see the situation You propose not to lower charge rate during AI phase of the turn so the enemy can charge and to absorb TRIPLE damage. In that case Your legion will counterattack. But in case Your legion is full counter infantry it will anyway counterattack even with 1 Modao unit. So what's the point? With charge You just accept triple damage of the enemy. It doesn't matter when he is protected with his active skill.But what during the cooldown? I don't think it is better than to use someone like Heavy Phalanx Pike. Most players have it at max level now I suppose. It brings 2 additional legion effects, one of which is additional damage to the cavalry which is very nice. And most likely Phalanx has higher stats as Modao is low level at this point. 1. Modao has additional counterattack dmg (+20%) as a unit effect. 2. With Phalanx additional legion skills will be: reduce dmg from cavalry (that we don’t need because of -90% dmg ) and morale boost (useless effect) 3. Full legion of defense infantry is weak against archers. Even with 90% reduced dmg, high level archer brings pain. Melee infantry gives 15% resist from archers and make more dmg to them.. 4. During the cooldown either retreat for 2-3 turns or reset it with calmness. I tested this technique in Battles, if I see AI with mostly 15 lvl templars I can defeat it with 4-5 deployed generals only. ( Su Dingfang + 2 generals with calmness) + 1-2 archer generals for enemies in towers. Cavalry AI does suicidal attacks on Su Dingfang and lose 2-3 full legions per turn. |
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Post by Erich on Sept 3, 2022 3:03:47 GMT
Well, as I understand from comments, that Su Dingfang’s main way to destroy enemies is COUNTER ATTACK, not attack.
So yeah, better give him 2 Modao to prevent lower level Defense Inf be put in front line. Modao in front line has +20% counter attack damage, and yay, and a nightmare for charging unit. The AI is stupid enough.
Kinda sadomaso… but yes, he destroy legions when being poked at 🤪
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Post by andrei on Sept 3, 2022 3:42:20 GMT
Could You make an example of Your math? As I see the situation You propose not to lower charge rate during AI phase of the turn so the enemy can charge and to absorb TRIPLE damage. In that case Your legion will counterattack. But in case Your legion is full counter infantry it will anyway counterattack even with 1 Modao unit. So what's the point? With charge You just accept triple damage of the enemy. It doesn't matter when he is protected with his active skill.But what during the cooldown? I don't think it is better than to use someone like Heavy Phalanx Pike. Most players have it at max level now I suppose. It brings 2 additional legion effects, one of which is additional damage to the cavalry which is very nice. And most likely Phalanx has higher stats as Modao is low level at this point. 1. Modao has additional counterattack dmg (+20%) as a unit effect. 2. With Phalanx additional legion skills will be: reduce dmg from cavalry (that we don’t need because of -90% dmg ) and morale boost (useless effect) 3. Full legion of defense infantry is weak against archers. Even with 90% reduced dmg, high level archer brings pain. Melee infantry gives 15% resist from archers and make more dmg to them.. 4. During the cooldown either retreat for 2-3 turns or reset it with calmness. I tested this technique in Battles, if I see AI with mostly 15 lvl templars I can defeat it with 4-5 deployed generals only. ( Su Dingfang + 2 generals with calmness) + 1-2 archer generals for enemies in towers. Cavalry AI does suicidal attacks on Su Dingfang and lose 2-3 full legions per turn. I see. Everything is built around his active taking into account 2 calmness and 90% damage reduce. Just to clarify. With such strategy - 2 calmness and under active - 1 Modao and 2 Varangians are way better. This way You are also stronger in attack. And I was thinking we were discussing full deff setup. And one more thing. High chance charging enemies is a situation more for territory mode. And I don't think we should build the team focusing on this mode. Imo it is just a stupid grinding place. In other modes Counterattack will not be same effective I suppose as You won't trigger massive suicide attacks on 1 frontline general. |
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Post by nexttimebro on Sept 3, 2022 6:46:14 GMT
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