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Post by stoic on Sept 15, 2022 13:55:09 GMT
I think there are two different things: objectively best line-up and best line-up in any particular situation.
So, almost all agree that lvl 18 (I assume it will be the highest level after the upcoming update) "Mongolian Raiders-Mamlukes-IBC" is one objectively best line-up for ranged mounted archers. It is an ideal. But as with all "ideals" it is rarely achieved in real life. More often we try to find line-ups to get the task completed. I am firmly confident that objectively best line-ups are a "delusion" for f2p players in EW7. F2p players simply don't have enough resources to achieve it, at least, not in any observable future. They should stay realistic and set up realistic plans. Without Saladin and Richard it is insanely difficult to upgrade Templars and Mamluks up to the highest levels. Don't get me wrong, it is still possible but the price is too high. And it will be even higher with each new level. I have spent three times less resources to upgrade Cataphracts to lvl 15 and have enough fragments for a couple of levels more. That means I can spend my free resources elsewhere and, probably, with better efficiency.
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Post by jonblend on Sept 15, 2022 15:09:15 GMT
It would be interesting to know at which level templars become equally strong as cataphracts lv15.
The thing that convinced me to go for templars was their high charge chance. Back then it was possible to combine that with 15/25 points of morale loss together from camel/elephant units. And now, it will also help us get off a second attack from black jet cav.
As for ranged cavalry I currently use IBC, mamluks and woad raiders because mongolians are just unlocked and I'm waiting for the update to see if we get some as rewards or via raid. This way, no rapid march is needed (I don't have the gems for it either) and we even get chase along with reduced attack cost.
The one criteria that decides whether a player's team is good at the moment is if it's possible to beat Expedition (or whatever else you think is the most difficult content). Since there are many units that can do this, I think it's too early for declaring a winner in the "most efficient unit" category.
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Post by stoic on Sept 15, 2022 18:49:04 GMT
True... I still don't have a clear answer whether do we really need lvl 18 (or maybe higher) units to complete all campaigns, special chapters, treasure missions etc. or lower levels of units are enough. ET are somehow vague about future plans and I am still puzzled what will be with EW7 after all planned campaigns are out. They should definitely increase an overall difficulty of conquests too. Without endgame content all endgame units are just expensive toys you can easily live without.
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Post by Sviatoslav I Igorevich on Sept 15, 2022 19:28:22 GMT
15 lvl Cataphracts same 8 lvl Templars but more cheaper.
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Post by stoic on Sept 16, 2022 4:16:10 GMT
15 lvl Cataphracts same 8 lvl Templars but more cheaper. Quite doubtful... Lvl 15 Cataphracts should have the same stats as lvl 11-12 Templars. Maybe less defence but more HP and more or less equal attack. |
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Post by stoic on Sept 16, 2022 4:20:28 GMT
Here are Cataphracts lvl 15  We can compare if someone has Templars lvl 8/10/12 |
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Post by verily on Sept 16, 2022 9:33:22 GMT
Here are Cataphracts lvl 15 We can compare if someone has Templars lvl 8/10/12 Here by dismantling units, rerolling then exchange to templars Lv 8  Lv 10  Lv 11 but Lv 12 can be view  |
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Post by stoic on Sept 16, 2022 10:30:27 GMT
Oh, I see they buffed Templars... Here is an old picture uploaded by yuanzhong  Now lvl 12 Templars have 263 attack, it is more than lvl 15 previously. And they have higher defence too. It was definitely a very significant buff. |
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Post by stoic on Sept 16, 2022 10:37:59 GMT
So lvl 15 Cataphracts are somewhere between lvl 8 - lvl 10 Templars depending on how important insane defence of Templars is. Here are lvl 15 Templars now  It will be interesting to see further upgrades of both. It is amusing that out of all cavalry units they decided to buff Templars  Yeah, sure, they needed buff urgently How about Melee cavalry, ET? You know, Hospitaliers are tier 6 unit too  |
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Post by Sviatoslav I Igorevich on Sept 16, 2022 18:34:44 GMT
Ok, now we know what lvl 8 Templars better than lvl 15 Cataphracts, lvl 7 same, but still Cataphracts cheaper.  PS. 3 Cataphracts, or 3 Templars it's bad decision, you need Noble Cavalry, Boyar Cavalry also. |
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Post by stoic on Sept 16, 2022 19:33:38 GMT
Ok, now we know what lvl 8 Templars better than lvl 15 Cataphracts, lvl 7 same, but still Cataphracts cheaper. PS. 3 Cataphracts, or 3 Templars it's bad decision, you need Noble Cavalry, Boyar Cavalry also. Cataphracts have significantly more HP - 487 vs. 373 Attack is equal 231 vs. 232. Templars lvl 8 have 9 points of defense more but 2% less charge probability. I don't see how Cataphracts lvl 15 are inferior to Templars lvl 8. |
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Post by Sviatoslav I Igorevich on Sept 16, 2022 19:49:11 GMT
Ok, now we know what lvl 8 Templars better than lvl 15 Cataphracts, lvl 7 same, but still Cataphracts cheaper. PS. 3 Cataphracts, or 3 Templars it's bad decision, you need Noble Cavalry, Boyar Cavalry also. Cataphracts have significantly more HP - 487 vs. 373 Attack is equal 231 vs. 232. Templars lvl 8 have 9 points of defense more but 2% less charge probability. I don't see how Cataphracts lvl 15 are inferior to Templars lvl 8. HP not important for charge cavalry, defense also, they must one shoot enemy, and avoid damage by bodyguards with stonewall units. As we can see a paper charge probability for Templars better for 18% and they have better bonuses for other legions, lvl 8 Templars better at all. PS. F2P don't have Richard, they have Nevsky and Alfred, and they need Noble and Boyar Cavalry at lvl 15, for best results, and use Cataphracts or Templars as 3 legion, it's not a religion, lvl 7-8 Templars or lvl 15 Cataphracts, they are same, and f2p can get one of them, and of course they can't get Jet Black. Se la Vie. |
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Post by nexttimebro on Sept 16, 2022 20:22:44 GMT
Guys, don’t forget about Templar’s buff for 5% dmg. Honestly, any Christian unit is the only supportive unit at this time. Even 15lvl Templars can’t beat 11-12lvl of Chinese units (Modao, IBC, Jet Cavalry )
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Sept 16, 2022 20:32:56 GMT
Cataphracts have significantly more HP - 487 vs. 373 Attack is equal 231 vs. 232. Templars lvl 8 have 9 points of defense more but 2% less charge probability. I don't see how Cataphracts lvl 15 are inferior to Templars lvl 8. HP not important for charge cavalry, defense also, they must one shoot enemy, and avoid damage by bodyguards with stonewall units. As we can see a paper charge probability for Templars better for 18% and they have better bonuses for other legions, lvl 8 Templars better at all. PS. F2P don't have Richard, they have Nevsky and Alfred, and they need Noble and Boyar Cavalry at lvl 15, for best results, and use Cataphracts or Templars as 3 legion, it's not a religion, lvl 7-8 Templars or lvl 15 Cataphracts, they are same, and f2p can get one of them, and of course they can't get Jet Black. Se la Vie. I would think that 100+ HP gap for charge cav is rather important. If both take a 200 HP hit, one is above half HP while one is below. While it might not be as game changing as 40 more attack on charge cav, it's still useful to have. For charge rate, Cataphracts have a skill that boosts charge rate to 20%, thus from 65% to 85%. Really, Noble and Boyar are the same, but Boyars are faster. But Nobles are unlocked much earlier, and it would be much more difficult to have lance cavalry instead of Noble carry you to Boyars. Templars are much more difficult to obtain and are unlocked late to boot (somehow I got mine to level 8), but have much better stats compared to others. Cataphracts are unlocked reasonable early and are pretty good. Probably the best F2P charge cav if we factor in availability unless you have a mobility-oriented team. If I were a new F2P player, I would save up my Cataphract and Templar fragments until I get can to level 15 and 8 respectively. It depends on whether you have more Cataphract fragments or more Templar fragments. |
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Post by kingbutawl on Sept 16, 2022 22:19:07 GMT
Cataphracts have significantly more HP - 487 vs. 373 Attack is equal 231 vs. 232. Templars lvl 8 have 9 points of defense more but 2% less charge probability. I don't see how Cataphracts lvl 15 are inferior to Templars lvl 8. HP not important for charge cavalry, defense also, they must one shoot enemy, and avoid damage by bodyguards with stonewall units. As we can see a paper charge probability for Templars better for 18% and they have better bonuses for other legions, lvl 8 Templars better at all. PS. F2P don't have Richard, they have Nevsky and Alfred, and they need Noble and Boyar Cavalry at lvl 15, for best results, and use Cataphracts or Templars as 3 legion, it's not a religion, lvl 7-8 Templars or lvl 15 Cataphracts, they are same, and f2p can get one of them, and of course they can't get Jet Black. Se la Vie. I saw they buffed boyars, because they’re now better than Noble Cavalry. In my opinion Noble Cavalry is a better unit than cataphracts, due to more defence, more availability (thanks to the fragments we got since the beginning of the game or in the regular shop), same or slightly more attack, more morale and a f2p general such as Alfred who is amongst the best charge cavalry general in the game (performing well even on melee cavalry). |
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Yeah, sure, they needed buff urgently 
