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Post by charlesmartell on Nov 25, 2023 8:57:36 GMT
I have 3 good archer general so far: Tokugawa Ieyasy (gold), Mori Motonari (gold) and Chosokabe Motochika (purple). Each of them have their spcial unit - Crossbowman, Marksman and Mounted cavalry respectively. Tokugawa and Chosokabe have 5 bow icons and Master of archery 4 (+15% dmg) and Mori looks weak (4 bow icons and no mastery). So the questions is - which general is better (for use as main archery general) and should I give him best unit (mounted archer) despite if it isn't his special unit? Also, which items I should equip for archer general? And the last question - is it worth to spend experience items on genarals at all and if so, is there any level cap? Thank you in advance for your help!
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Post by stoic on Nov 25, 2023 13:26:06 GMT
Imo, Mori is better than Tokugawa. His active skill can deal damage equal to carpet bombings and it is only on 4 turns cooldown. Tokugawa active skill is very situational and more often than not is not worth to postpone attack, because 2 normal attacks are even better than a single one with 150% damage. Special unit of Mori is a way better than Tokugawa's and it is significant easier to farm Mori's fragments. I think that Chosokabe is better than Tokugawa for the same reason too.
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Post by Alexyx on Nov 25, 2023 13:33:32 GMT
I have 3 good archer general so far: Tokugawa Ieyasy (gold), Mori Motonari (gold) and Chosokabe Motochika (purple). Each of them have their spcial unit - Crossbowman, Marksman and Mounted cavalry respectively. Tokugawa and Chosokabe have 5 bow icons and Master of archery 4 (+15% dmg) and Mori looks weak (4 bow icons and no mastery). So the questions is - which general is better (for use as main archery general) and should I give him best unit (mounted archer) despite if it isn't his special unit? Also, which items I should equip for archer general? And the last question - is it worth to spend experience items on genarals at all and if so, is there any level cap? Thank you in advance for your help! I'm using Tokugawa more often, but I haven't really had the chance to upgrade Mori, so I have no clue whether he works better or not. Tokugawa tho, with sufficient upgrades can deal enormous dmg, rivaled only by a few gens like Oda. Admittedly though, it is still single-target dmg
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Post by Alexyx on Nov 25, 2023 13:47:16 GMT
Update: Mori hits harder when Tokugawa doesn't have his buff, but still Tokugawa is unmatched when using his active.
The choice imo depends mostly on whether you need more crowd control or more general killers.
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Post by SolidLight on Nov 25, 2023 13:52:15 GMT
Imo, Mori is better than Tokugawa. His active skill can deal damage equal to carpet bombings and it is only on 4 turns cooldown. Tokugawa active skill is very situational and more often than not is not worth to postpone attack, because 2 normal attacks are even better than a single one with 150% damage. Special unit of Mori is a way better than Tokugawa's and it is significant easier to farm Mori's fragments. I think that Chosokabe is better than Tokugawa for the same reason too. Tokugawa’s active gives the attack +150% damage, so it’s 250% damage. It’s either a +25% or +150% damage increase depending on whether or not you have a target when you delay the attack, so you always do more damage by using it, but you can’t spread the damage over two different targets. Though I’ll agree, AoE nuke every 4 turns is generally much more useful than a high damage snipe. Motonari debuffing attack is just icing on the cake. On paper Chosokabe Motochika SHOULD be the best archer in the game, but I honestly can’t tell that much difference between him and Motonari in actual gameplay (which probably means I just don’t understand some stats).
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Post by charlesmartell on Nov 25, 2023 14:26:20 GMT
But why no one count Master of archery skill? +15% dmg always looks better than Mori. And Mori has only 4 bow icons (whatewer it means), so he's weaker. I'm mostly using Tokugawa with mounted archer in campaigns and his skill is useful too, mostly when he's not in range he can easily prepare his blow. Mori's skill only deals 60-90 troops dmg and debuff dmg, so when enemies are fat this means almost nothing.
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Post by balthazar on Nov 25, 2023 16:54:10 GMT
Observing this conversation as I dont have any of the trio, finished the current game without an archer unit. Mori seems easier to upgrade but damage burst is useful in so many missions especially in tenkabito. I think half of time I have ninjaed my way into enemy castle/target with high mobility units, so tokugawa with mounted archer could be an assassin type maybe?
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Post by CharlesMartel on Nov 25, 2023 17:08:02 GMT
Observing this conversation as I dont have any of the trio, finished the current game without an archer unit. Mori seems easier to upgrade but damage burst is useful in so many missions especially in tenkabito. I think half of time I have ninjaed my way into enemy castle/target with high mobility units, so tokugawa with mounted archer could be an assassin type maybe? I'm still using Tokugawa as my main archer on Mounted Archers, possibly because I'm stubborn, but I like him. I also have Chosokabe though, and he's probably just as good (or better according to some) and will be much easier to upgrade in the long run, usually I'm deploying both of them. At this point in the game I'd be skeptical of spending Blue Flames on anyone who doesn't have a Legendary Story though, because sweeping those is just too good.
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Post by Dannes on Nov 25, 2023 19:56:11 GMT
I have all three and their roles are pretty much Toku: Nuke someone, planning his attack even before he arrives Mori: Aoe Chip dmg, last to attack Chokusabe: Aoe Chip, 2nd to attack
Just give em their best units and they'll kick *Auto corrected*
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Post by stoic on Nov 25, 2023 20:16:07 GMT
But why no one count Master of archery skill? +15% dmg always looks better than Mori. And Mori has only 4 bow icons (whatewer it means), so he's weaker. I'm mostly using Tokugawa with mounted archer in campaigns and his skill is useful too, mostly when he's not in range he can easily prepare his blow. Mori's skill only deals 60-90 troops dmg and debuff dmg, so when enemies are fat this means almost nothing. If our assumption is correct, generals deal 10% more damage when leading their special units. Besides, Mori's skill is usually great against a group of enemies. Cumulative damage is usually greater than a damage against a single opponent. Besides, it is only one part of his skill, the other one is to debuff opponents. And, I think, at lvl 6 Mori gets a life-stealing ability (very useful on units with multiple attacks, such as Horse Archers)
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Post by Onadroig on Nov 26, 2023 1:57:45 GMT
I don't have Mori, so i can't compare them. For the moment Tokugawa is a Sniper for the enemy generals and also the fortifications. I thought that Chosokabe would be great, but his skill it's not a game changer for me. I have all the units at full upgrade too Someone knows if there Is a special aquipment for Chosokabe?
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Post by Boss Tweed on Nov 26, 2023 3:12:29 GMT
Between the two, I have found Ieyasu the superior. I always thought that Mori Motonari's carpet dealt too little damage to make it a viable spam cleaner. Plus Motonari's damage with archer even on crit is pretty dismal. Admittedly I have both on only two stars so that might be an unfair comparison.
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Post by charlesmartell on Nov 26, 2023 5:21:27 GMT
So could we do deep math and compare their raw damage output? 1. Bow icons. What are they means? One icon equal 10% damage? Or what else? 2. Archer mastery 4. +15% damage. 3. Special unit. +10% damage (theoretically). 4. Unit's strenght (if Tokugawa has his crossbowman he seriously lowers his damage output compared to mounted archer). 5. General skills on levels (but tbh when we can have level 6? In a several months?).
So at this point level 1 Tokugawa with mounted archer is the best for guaranteed normal damage (without active skills) from all sides.
Am I wrong?
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Post by stoic on Nov 26, 2023 5:45:30 GMT
So could we do deep math and compare their raw damage output? 1. Bow icons. What are they means? One icon equal 10% damage? Or what else? 2. Archer mastery 4. +15% damage. 3. Special unit. +10% damage (theoretically). 4. Unit's strenght (if Tokugawa has his crossbowman he seriously lowers his damage output compared to mounted archer). 5. General skills on levels (but tbh when we can have level 6? In a several months?). So at this point level 1 Tokugawa with mounted archer is the best for guaranteed normal damage (without active skills) from all sides. Am I wrong? I think bow icons represent bonus attack not damage. And like in previous ET games it is probably 5-6 points of attack. If Tokugawa uses Horse Archers instead of his own unit his damage output is 10% worse than that of Mori on horseback. That negates his damage bonus of AM. I think their capabilities as pure Archers are more or less equal. BUT as a team player Mori is far superior to Tokugawa, imo. Not only that. If we analyze this situation in long-term perspective we have to keep two important factors in mind. 1. Mori is a way easier to upgrade (provided we have access to his HL) In the long run it is a huge advantage. We can farm up to 4 fragments per day. The only way to upgrade Tokugawa is to send him on missions with fragments as reward. But that means we won't upgrade other generals who don't have HL as well. For example, Hideyoshi. 2. At lvl 6 both of them have new skills. Tokugawa has 20% additional damage bonus against one opponent next to the target. It is nice to have but isn't very spectacular. Mori, on the other hand, gets a lifestealing ability. Taking into consideration the fact that Horse Archers will have almost 100% probability to attack again eventually, that means that Mori is almost unkillable even without necessity using healing items. I had Tokugawa before I restarted the game and, as you pointed out, without Horse Archers his offensive potential decreases quite significantly. Yet, Horse Archers are not his special unit.
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Post by truhses on Nov 26, 2023 5:58:41 GMT
my two cents... No one mentioned in the thread that Tokugawa is the only owner of the full set, at least at this stage of the game. This is not important now, but in the late game it can be a good advantage. In general, all three are top archers with their own pros and cons, and all three are worth developing. At the moment, my priorities are Tokugawa and Mori, whom I intend to upgrade to three stars.
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