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Post by Franz von Hipper on Aug 25, 2016 16:39:56 GMT
I wrote a dissertation on the subject last year, I was wondering you guys opinion. If you want, pls write the reason of your choice in the comments. Not that I ask for the "main" reason here
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Post by Ivan Kolev on Aug 25, 2016 17:40:46 GMT
USA! USA! USA!
But aside from my blatant patriotism, I have legitimate reasons to believe this.
Following the October Revolution, Russia dropped out of the war, resulting in the end of an entire front and hundreds of thousands of men to fight the Germans. The USA took Russia's place in the war, by supplying a bunch of supplies, and hundreds of thousands of men.
The French were also incredibly demoralized before America's entry in the war, so much so that the French government couldve been rocked by revolution. American troops improved the morale of the French troops due to their almost cockiness, I suppose you could say, and enthusiasm.
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Post by Franz von Hipper on Aug 25, 2016 17:54:41 GMT
A few more votes and I will reveal my research results
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 18:03:07 GMT
Germany didn't have resources for continuing war
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Post by Quintus Fabius on Aug 25, 2016 18:36:43 GMT
Not enough men, for moi.
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Post by Franz von Hipper on Aug 25, 2016 23:50:27 GMT
My problematic was: Did the USA was the main cause of the defeat of Germany in WW1? The answer: No, after good research I came to the conclusion that the British Blockade was the most important factor. If we analyze the other possible causes, we can notice that blockade worsen their situation. Lets analyse each possible answer. The fighting and casualties had a massive impact on Germany, it was nearly impossible to win the war anymore and didn't have enough man to replace the casualties, however if we look at the final battle maps, we can notice the line is not inside Germany, its inside Belgium and France, it is therefore possible to think, especially with trench warfare, that the Germans could of held for longer. The USA entry into the war did bolster french moral, however the American troops weren't in the war long enough to truly be effective in battle, they did replace Russia in the man department, however their most notable act was their political pressure on Berlin which is one of the cause of the Kaiser abdication. The Abdication was caused by both the search for peace, which required the Kaiser gone, and the political unstability in the country, instability indirectly caused by the blockade. We can see the abdication as more of a requirement for peace than the cause of the defeat. Finally, the Blockade. The blockade, that ran during the whole war and the longer it lasted the stronger it became, effectively starved the German Empire, the british effectively shutted down all importation except for sweden (far from enough for the Huge German Empire). Troops didn't get adequate clothes for the rough condition of the tranches, got smaller food ration than the Entente soldiers and lesser weapons, this caused great demoralisation in the German camp. Things were worse on the home front, people were being fed 1500 calories a day, people starved and so they stole to survive, it is estimated tha around 700 000 people died from direct starvation. Germans also didnt get any hygiene products, therefore diseases were rampant. This climate had a great part in creating the political instabilities that pushed the Kaiser out of Berlin. Thoughts Ivan Kolev, and others?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2016 23:57:05 GMT
Franz von Hipper, I completely agree. The USA didn't do too much to effect WWI. At that point it already looked like the war was ending.
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Post by Ivan Kolev on Aug 26, 2016 0:09:55 GMT
My problematic was: Did the USA was the main cause of the defeat of Germany in WW1? The answer: No, after good research I came to the conclusion that the British Blockade was the most important factor. If we analyze the other possible causes, we can notice that blockade worsen their situation. Lets analyse each possible answer. The fighting and casualties had a massive impact on Germany, it was nearly impossible to win the war anymore and didn't have enough man to replace the casualties, however if we look at the final battle maps, we can notice the line is not inside Germany, its inside Belgium and France, it is therefore possible to think, especially with trench warfare, that the Germans could of held for longer. The USA entry into the war did bolster french moral, however the American troops weren't in the war long enough to truly be effective in battle, they did replace Russia in the man department, however their most notable act was their political pressure on Berlin which is one of the cause of the Kaiser abdication. The Abdication was caused by both the search for peace, which required the Kaiser gone, and the political unstability in the country, instability indirectly caused by the blockade. We can see the abdication as more of a requirement for peace than the cause of the defeat. Finally, the Blockade. The blockade, that ran during the whole war and the longer it lasted the stronger it became, effectively starved the German Empire, the british effectively shutted down all importation except for sweden (far from enough for the Huge German Empire). Troops didn't get adequate clothes for the rough condition of the tranches, got smaller food ration than the Entente soldiers and lesser weapons, this caused great demoralisation in the German camp. Things were worse on the home front, people were being fed 1500 calories a day, people starved and so they stole to survive, it is estimated tha around 700 000 people died from direct starvation. Germans also didnt get any hygiene products, therefore diseases were rampant. This climate had a great part in creating the political instabilities that pushed the Kaiser out of Berlin. Thoughts Ivan Kolev , and others? The improving of morale was TREMENDOUSLY important, however. In 1917, a massive French mutiny on the Western Front resulted in a lack of men to fight in large sections of the front, and revolution in France similar to the revolution in Russia was not that far fetched before American troops arrived. Once the Americans arrived, it improved French and British morale because, unlike the British or French, we were naïve and enthusiastic once we entered. While there is no doubt that the blockade and military defeats weakened Germany tremendously, the USA's entry into the war was the only thing preventing a German victory in the war. And here are the reasons: 1. The Germans launched the Ludendorff Offensive early because they wanted to knock France out of the war before American troops arrived. As a result of this, not as many troops were involved as there could be if it had been launched later on. 2. Following Russia's surrender, the Germans signed an agreement with the new Ukrainian government basically stating that the Ukraine would supply grain for the Germans and the Central Powers and in return would be protected by the Germans. This would have solved the food issue in Germany. The only reason they weren't able to do this was because the Germans launched their offensive earlier than they probably should have due to America's entry. Plus, by 1918, there were lots and lots of American troops on the Western Front and helped to really batter through the last German defenses in 1918.
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Post by Franz von Hipper on Aug 26, 2016 10:23:55 GMT
My problematic was: Did the USA was the main cause of the defeat of Germany in WW1? The answer: No, after good research I came to the conclusion that the British Blockade was the most important factor. If we analyze the other possible causes, we can notice that blockade worsen their situation. Lets analyse each possible answer. The fighting and casualties had a massive impact on Germany, it was nearly impossible to win the war anymore and didn't have enough man to replace the casualties, however if we look at the final battle maps, we can notice the line is not inside Germany, its inside Belgium and France, it is therefore possible to think, especially with trench warfare, that the Germans could of held for longer. The USA entry into the war did bolster french moral, however the American troops weren't in the war long enough to truly be effective in battle, they did replace Russia in the man department, however their most notable act was their political pressure on Berlin which is one of the cause of the Kaiser abdication. The Abdication was caused by both the search for peace, which required the Kaiser gone, and the political unstability in the country, instability indirectly caused by the blockade. We can see the abdication as more of a requirement for peace than the cause of the defeat. Finally, the Blockade. The blockade, that ran during the whole war and the longer it lasted the stronger it became, effectively starved the German Empire, the british effectively shutted down all importation except for sweden (far from enough for the Huge German Empire). Troops didn't get adequate clothes for the rough condition of the tranches, got smaller food ration than the Entente soldiers and lesser weapons, this caused great demoralisation in the German camp. Things were worse on the home front, people were being fed 1500 calories a day, people starved and so they stole to survive, it is estimated tha around 700 000 people died from direct starvation. Germans also didnt get any hygiene products, therefore diseases were rampant. This climate had a great part in creating the political instabilities that pushed the Kaiser out of Berlin. Thoughts Ivan Kolev , and others? The improving of morale was TREMENDOUSLY important, however. In 1917, a massive French mutiny on the Western Front resulted in a lack of men to fight in large sections of the front, and revolution in France similar to the revolution in Russia was not that far fetched before American troops arrived. Once the Americans arrived, it improved French and British morale because, unlike the British or French, we were naïve and enthusiastic once we entered. While there is no doubt that the blockade and military defeats weakened Germany tremendously, the USA's entry into the war was the only thing preventing a German victory in the war. And here are the reasons: 1. The Germans launched the Ludendorff Offensive early because they wanted to knock France out of the war before American troops arrived. As a result of this, not as many troops were involved as there could be if it had been launched later on. 2. Following Russia's surrender, the Germans signed an agreement with the new Ukrainian government basically stating that the Ukraine would supply grain for the Germans and the Central Powers and in return would be protected by the Germans. This would have solved the food issue in Germany. The only reason they weren't able to do this was because the Germans launched their offensive earlier than they probably should have due to America's entry. Plus, by 1918, there were lots and lots of American troops on the Western Front and helped to really batter through the last German defenses in 1918. We could say that the blockade gave most of thehelp builduilg the coffin and that the USA putted the final nail into it, to seal the fate. However, while agreeing with your arguments, I feel the blockade was the most important factor overall, since it really reduced Germany capability of holding a war of attrition. But also it was the root of the massive political crisis in Berlin at the end of the war, people wanting the war to end so they could end their suffering started to strike. The youth joined radical leftists groups. All this brought down the Kaiser, and the empire formula
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Post by Franz von Hipper on Aug 26, 2016 10:30:37 GMT
Also the blockade affected German livestock, effectively reducing by a lot the german government capacity to furnish its own meat to the population. Since a malnourished livestock either dies or is a lot thinner therefore producing less meat.
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Post by Ivan Kolev on Aug 26, 2016 11:26:54 GMT
The improving of morale was TREMENDOUSLY important, however. In 1917, a massive French mutiny on the Western Front resulted in a lack of men to fight in large sections of the front, and revolution in France similar to the revolution in Russia was not that far fetched before American troops arrived. Once the Americans arrived, it improved French and British morale because, unlike the British or French, we were naïve and enthusiastic once we entered. While there is no doubt that the blockade and military defeats weakened Germany tremendously, the USA's entry into the war was the only thing preventing a German victory in the war. And here are the reasons: 1. The Germans launched the Ludendorff Offensive early because they wanted to knock France out of the war before American troops arrived. As a result of this, not as many troops were involved as there could be if it had been launched later on. 2. Following Russia's surrender, the Germans signed an agreement with the new Ukrainian government basically stating that the Ukraine would supply grain for the Germans and the Central Powers and in return would be protected by the Germans. This would have solved the food issue in Germany. The only reason they weren't able to do this was because the Germans launched their offensive earlier than they probably should have due to America's entry. Plus, by 1918, there were lots and lots of American troops on the Western Front and helped to really batter through the last German defenses in 1918. We could say that the blockade gave most of thehelp builduilg the coffin and that the USA putted the final nail into it, to seal the fate. However, while agreeing with your arguments, I feel the blockade was the most important factor overall, since it really reduced Germany capability of holding a war of attrition. But also it was the root of the massive political crisis in Berlin at the end of the war, people wanting the war to end so they could end their suffering started to strike. The youth joined radical leftists groups. All this brought down the Kaiser, and the empire formula But the entire food issue would have been solved by the deal with the Ukraine, meaning that it would just take a little longer for the food to reach the civilian population. The USA did not nail in the coffin, it WAS the coffin.
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Post by Franz von Hipper on Aug 26, 2016 14:37:39 GMT
We could say that the blockade gave most of thehelp builduilg the coffin and that the USA putted the final nail into it, to seal the fate. However, while agreeing with your arguments, I feel the blockade was the most important factor overall, since it really reduced Germany capability of holding a war of attrition. But also it was the root of the massive political crisis in Berlin at the end of the war, people wanting the war to end so they could end their suffering started to strike. The youth joined radical leftists groups. All this brought down the Kaiser, and the empire formula But the entire food issue would have been solved by the deal with the Ukraine, meaning that it would just take a little longer for the food to reach the civilian population. The USA did not nail in the coffin, it WAS the coffin. Its quite hard to guess how much help the Ukrainians could have brought to both Germany and Austria-Hungary, since they both have a massive population (around 64 million for Germany and 52 million for A-H), and the fact that Ukraine still has to feed itself. Sure it would have helped the problem, but its far from solving it, plus considering most of the food would have went to the front, it would not have stopped the civil unrest in Berlin. Also this is my 100th post here, party time woohoo
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Post by Tito on Aug 26, 2016 15:03:49 GMT
Franz von Hipper, I completely agree. The USA didn't do too much to effect WWI. At that point it already looked like the war was ending. Yes the blockade messed them up hut bassicly they had no chance in WW1 yes they were a atrong countrt but Asutria Hungary and Ottoman Empire were fading away they were old bone sof Europe ans thwy Allies outnumbered them Population vise and Land vise
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Post by NetherFreek on Aug 26, 2016 16:26:34 GMT
The main reason for the defeat from the germans was... germany itself.
Germany retreated cause basicelly, the population was dieing out, they couldnt supply the war anymore as wel.
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Post by Tito on Aug 26, 2016 16:55:41 GMT
The main reason for the defeat from the germans was... germany itself. Germany retreated cause basicelly, the population was dieing out, they couldnt supply the war anymore as wel. Welcome to the Grammar Club
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