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Post by Desophaeus on Feb 6, 2017 21:44:14 GMT
I'm thinking... maybe the part where a GM tries to handle 11 players with an occasional resign and a replacement here and there is getting rough to manage.
Not just difficult for the GM, but it's likely that some of the players are also struggling as well.
What if some people likes to play on a much smaller map and doesn't have to deal with so many unknown variables? Plus not to mention that the first few phases are really determined by your communication skills rather than tactical or strategic skills, so how about a 1 vs 1?
I recommend the Marenum map. It's good for 2, 3, or 4 players, but for this particular case" just 2 players taking 2 powers each. It can be North, South vs West, East or West, North vs South, East, or so forth etc... and if the players want to, the two powers on a side can keep their SCs, Units, and home centers separate or combined.
If more than 2 players wants a quick match to test their skills, there can be a parallel game running for the other 2 players, and so forth...
As for who does the GMing... it doesn't have to be a third party, it can be done by both players but the only hard part is somehow submitting orders without revealing before the other guy does it.
Any ideas?
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Post by Desophaeus on Feb 6, 2017 21:45:47 GMT
Speaking of... The Marenum map:  Along with the list of full names of provinces and sea spaces: Calidras Empire - Ostia Aniene Fabercastium Cesa Libetium Isles of the Zenaides - Antica Heliopolis Paros Caudleode Tribe - Ablaecnes Skanderbegia Goudorst Rakamoot Ghadames The Ampharites - Maghresul Lixus Ampharos Tairo Reksah Deshretwa Ocean spaces (clockwise) - Lagumearg Straits of Salzor Gadir Dominion of Paros Horkai Ebusian Sea Bay of Ampharos Phe-Ka Tefro-Ku East Apulian Ocean West Apulian Ocean Ingemar Central Neutrals (not the surrounding Islands) - Aesland Baghers Lahoma Panormus Daconia Krayau Vhys Neutral Islands - Tharros Kenos Larnaka Umber Felcaster The Four Princes
Standard Movement Restrictions: Sea Space - Fleets only, of course but armies may be passed over via convoy order. Inland Space - Armies only, of course. Coastal Space - Either types of units may occupy the space. A fleet in a coastal space may only move to an adjacent coastal space only if it is adjacent along the coastline (as if the Fleet was moving down the coast to the next space). Specific Movement Clarification: The Four Princes is a cluster of closely placed islands with shallow waters around them. An Army or Fleet can move from Aesland to The Four Princes (or vice versa) in one move. A fleet moving from Lagumearg cannot move directly to Ingemar (or vice versa) but first must move to The Four Princes or Aesland. The common border with The Four Princes doesn't separate the coast of Aesland into two coastlines. The same applies to the Caudleode side of The Four Princes as well. Goudorst does not border with Ingemar, but Rakamoot does border with The Four Princes. |
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Post by best75 on Feb 7, 2017 3:24:16 GMT
Doesn't having only 2 players remove the main focus of diplomacy which is well diplomacy?
That other player will be your enemy, so there's no room to make allies, netogiate, plan.
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Post by Desophaeus on Feb 7, 2017 5:42:55 GMT
Doesn't having only 2 players remove the main focus of diplomacy which is well diplomacy? That other player will be your enemy, so there's no room to make allies, netogiate, plan. You're right, this would feel SO different without diplomatic negotiations. In Dip05, I had seriously considered your offer to join you against Iberia for example. I wish I had time to devote myself further into the game and possibly preventing Khurram from getting frustrated with trying to get a replacement player from Italy but I couldn't continue everyday...  I was thinking of a very different mode of playing Diplomacy, more of ... a challenge to outwit your opponent or to sharpen your tactical skills in practice. Plus it's easier to pause and unpause when necessary when only 2 players are involved and the game can adjust to their schedules much more conveniently. Plus to add... the Marenum map is flexible to accommodate 1 or 2 more players if the diplomacy front is desired in addition to the battlefront. Either way... it works  Just up to the players what they wants, a 1 vs 1 match or a full-blown mini-Diplomacy game. |
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Post by Napoleon Bonaparte on Feb 7, 2017 8:37:29 GMT
I like this. The GM doesn't have to go through a ton of orders to process and it's not a headache for the players too. Not to be mention the inevitable "I'm leaving! Now it's your problem to find a substitute for me!!"
Just two people and both have to fight.
Speaking of which, maybe you guys can try the maps where it's France vs Austria or that one where its Germany vs Italy. (They're on variant diplomacy, a site related to diplomacy).
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Post by Desophaeus on Feb 7, 2017 15:01:05 GMT
I like this. The GM doesn't have to go through a ton of orders to process and it's not a headache for the players too. Not to be mention the inevitable "I'm leaving! Now it's your problem to find a substitute for me!!" Just two people and both have to fight. Speaking of which, maybe you guys can try the maps where it's France vs Austria or that one where its Germany vs Italy. (They're on variant diplomacy, a site related to diplomacy). That kind of a map is too huge and even if the other 5 powers are occupied by neutral immobile units, it won't be a fair fight. Whoever has more access to free neutrals will win 4 out of 5 times (winrate could be lower due to a moron vs a genius). For example, Italy vs Germany... Germany has access to 3 SCs right away, but Italy has only one, Tunis. Even if Italy forces his way into TYR, Germany just has to sit on Munich while he get 2 free ones in 1901, and continue growing into Scandinavia alone while Italy has to take his time in eating up either SPA/POR or the Balkans. By the time Italy has finishes taking the Balkans, Germany could have a fleet in MAO. And he can crush the Italian guerrilla in BOH by forcing it to end up somewhere between Russia/Austria then bottle it up. Similarly, Austria would have a better chance of winning than France at first because of the access to the Balkans, but the clock is running out on him because France can get Iberia, the Lowlands, and eventually Scandinavia, plus if he's smart, he will go for Tunis early as possible to deny Austria that center. There's the possibility of giving 3 powers to each side but it's pointlessly oversized for only 2 people. |
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Post by Desophaeus on Feb 7, 2017 15:05:36 GMT
Napoleon Bonaparte, see the Marenum map? It's only 4 vs 4 for 2 players (and hopefully it's pretty close to being balanced for all 4 positions). Plus if there's 3 players, then the third person who is sandwiched between the two others will have his special white SC activated for him. But I recommend having an actual GM for 3 or 4 player games while a 2 player game might work out okay without a GM.
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Post by Desophaeus on Feb 7, 2017 15:06:30 GMT
I still don't have a good idea of making it possible for players to unveil their orders at the same time in a way to be fair for both.
Anyone have ideas on this?
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Post by Stonewall Jackson on Feb 7, 2017 15:11:56 GMT
The only way I see it is that in the thread they ask each other if they are ready to post their orders, and if so, post them right away. Hopefully they wouldn't "cheat". But that's the only way I can think of. Have each of the players agree to a deadline, a specific one when the orders will be posted
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Post by Desophaeus on Feb 7, 2017 22:33:05 GMT
The only way I see it is that in the thread they ask each other if they are ready to post their orders, and if so, post them right away. Hopefully they wouldn't "cheat". But that's the only way I can think of. Have each of the players agree to a deadline, a specific one when the orders will be posted I got it!! www.lettermelater.com/We can set up an email and use that kind of automatic transmission to send a set of orders at the deadline (the drawback is we can't hasten if both sides are already ready before the deadline) Tagging readers... Napoleon Bonaparte, Bismarck Jr, best75, Frederick the Great, Stonewall Jackson (not sure who else?) |
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Feb 8, 2017 0:24:54 GMT
The only way I see it is that in the thread they ask each other if they are ready to post their orders, and if so, post them right away. Hopefully they wouldn't "cheat". But that's the only way I can think of. Have each of the players agree to a deadline, a specific one when the orders will be posted I got it!! www.lettermelater.com/We can set up an email and use that kind of automatic transmission to send a set of orders at the deadline (the drawback is we can't hasten if both sides are already ready before the deadline) Tagging readers... Napoleon Bonaparte , Bismarck Jr , best75 , Frederick the Great , Stonewall Jackson (not sure who else?) MEE YOU FOOL. I ASKED TO PLAY! If I'm not playing, you guys could send me the orders? I will quickly get to them, but I am not qualified to decide their result, only to reveal them for you guys. |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Feb 8, 2017 5:22:52 GMT
The only way I see it is that in the thread they ask each other if they are ready to post their orders, and if so, post them right away. Hopefully they wouldn't "cheat". But that's the only way I can think of. Have each of the players agree to a deadline, a specific one when the orders will be posted I got it!! www.lettermelater.com/We can set up an email and use that kind of automatic transmission to send a set of orders at the deadline (the drawback is we can't hasten if both sides are already ready before the deadline) Tagging readers... Napoleon Bonaparte , Bismarck Jr , best75 , Frederick the Great , Stonewall Jackson (not sure who else?) Hmmmm I might do this I'll think about it. I worry certain people might get salty and cheat and it would be impossible to prove that they have done so. |
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Post by Desophaeus on Feb 8, 2017 6:20:55 GMT
Hmmmm I might do this I'll think about it. I worry certain people might get salty and cheat and it would be impossible to prove that they have done so. Explain please? If an email is set to launch at the precise time for the deadline (like 1 min exactly, or less, before the deadline), I don't see how it's possible for a player to see the other player in enough time to send an email before the deadline in order to cheat by seeing the enemy orders before sending. If the exchange of emails doesn't occur on time, the orders are considered invalid, and a NMR is triggered, so the player who attempts to cheat will actually come off worse than not cheating. Now... this is assuming that the automatic email system works... :/ Let's hope it does. I would like to test it out first. But I think the automatic email sending idea could make a 1 vs 1 possible without a GM. (As for disagreements over the order resolutions, the players can post questions on how to resolve the conflicting orders) |
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Post by Laurent de Gouvion on Feb 8, 2017 6:45:14 GMT
I can play 1 vs 1 Diplomacy. What about another game of Marenum? Is that possible Desophaeus? |
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Post by Desophaeus on Feb 8, 2017 7:13:24 GMT
I can play 1 vs 1 Diplomacy. What about another game of Marenum? Is that possible Desophaeus? If someone is willing to be a GM for a game of Diplomacy with the Marenum map, he is free to do so. I for one will be only playing a 1 vs 1 match (with pauses) rather than 3,4 player games. |
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Just up to the players what they wants, a 1 vs 1 match or a full-blown mini-Diplomacy game.
