|
|
Post by stoic on Feb 14, 2017 1:39:43 GMT
Do you think 225% Saladin or Suleiman can deal higher damage than 112.5% Attila+Edward+337.5%Asoka? As you have said somewhere else, the main problem of a grey general (and I would say of blue generals too) is not how much damage he can make, but how much damage he can take. If Jhansi (theoreticaly, because I'm not sure that there is someone, who really spent medals on her development) could survive for some time because of "Plunder", I do not see how Asoka and Black Prince could survive any serious counterstrike. If by chance they will not be killed at once, they loose for certain theirs Commander skill for the simple reason - neither they have health restoration, nor they could strike without retaliation. The overall construction seems a bit suspicios to me. Gewogen und zu leicht gefunden ;0) |
|
|
|
Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 14, 2017 1:42:15 GMT
Do you think 225% Saladin or Suleiman can deal higher damage than 112.5% Attila+Edward+337.5%Asoka? As you have said somewhere else, the main problem of a grey general (and I would say of blue generals too) is not how much damage he can make, but how much damage he can take. If Jhansi (theoreticaly, because I'm not sure that there is someone, who really spent medals on her development) could survive for some time because of "Plunder", I do not see how Asoka and Black Prince could survive any serious counterstrike. If by chance they will not be killed at once, they loose for certain theirs Commander skill for the simple reason - neither they have health restoration, nor they could strike without retaliation. The overall construction seems a bit suspicios to me. Gewogen und zu leicht gefunden ;0) Edward should not launch the first strike. For Asoka, his defense is fine. And you have Attila who can weaken the strongest enemies. And of course, cavalry lineup is for skilled players.  |
|
|
|
Post by stoic on Feb 14, 2017 1:52:48 GMT
As you have said somewhere else, the main problem of a grey general (and I would say of blue generals too) is not how much damage he can make, but how much damage he can take. If Jhansi (theoreticaly, because I'm not sure that there is someone, who really spent medals on her development) could survive for some time because of "Plunder", I do not see how Asoka and Black Prince could survive any serious counterstrike. If by chance they will not be killed at once, they loose for certain theirs Commander skill for the simple reason - neither they have health restoration, nor they could strike without retaliation. The overall construction seems a bit suspicios to me. Gewogen und zu leicht gefunden ;0) Edward should not launch the first strike. For Asoka, his defense is fine. And you have Attila who can weaken the strongest enemies. I understand. But how unpleasant it may sound AI has its turn to strike, and very often chooses opponents with weak deffence and HP. I do not see how it is possible to eliminate danger to them taking into account the fact that they should be (and remain) active to trigger the Commander skill... |
|
|
|
Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 14, 2017 2:00:05 GMT
Edward should not launch the first strike. For Asoka, his defense is fine. And you have Attila who can weaken the strongest enemies. I understand. But how unpleasant it may sound AI has its turn to strike, and very often chooses opponents with weak deffence and HP. I do not see how it is possible to eliminate danger to them taking into account the fact that they should be (and remain) active to trigger the Commander skill... It is a problem. AI's attack order is outrange available>lower defense(by stat)>lower health. Edward gets attacked first because he falls at the second category. I need some more data to see how to save him, cavalry is good at mopping up, but there's still something you can't mop up in 1 turn I guess. Maybe you can. |
|
|
|
Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 14, 2017 2:03:25 GMT
Huh, infantry might can be excellent decoy then.
|
|
|
|
Post by stoic on Feb 14, 2017 2:11:48 GMT
Huh, infantry might can be excellent decoy then. I understand conception "decoy for the star player", but "decoy for the weak player" is to difficult for me :0) Anyway I have suspicion that AI' archers will choose cavalry first... |
|
|
|
Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 14, 2017 2:23:10 GMT
Huh, infantry might can be excellent decoy then. I understand conception "decoy for the star player", but "decoy for the weak player" is to difficult for me :0) I'm using examples here. If enemy Li Hongzhang is targeting us, and we have Suleiman and Nobunaga in his attack range at the same time, he will attack Suleiman first because Suleiman is less ranged. If we change Li Hongzhang to Bismarck/Lincoln, while range is not an issue, he will attack Nobunaga first because he has less defense. If we give Nobunaga superb defense equipment so his defense is equal to Suleiman's, he will still get attacked first because he has less health. Whoever gets in enemy's range first will be locked on, and he won't change his target unless in special situation. So: just throw a random unit(infantry is the best, they are cheap and they run fast) in their range, and your units are safe, Joan of Arc is an excellent anti-arty decoy because of this. |
|
|
|
Post by stoic on Feb 14, 2017 3:02:17 GMT
Many times I've seen, that AI's archers attack my Saladin first, though he was not by any means the weakest target within the range. And in Invasions they are not only choosing cavalry but even are moving (at least some of them) towards cavalry units if they are out of range. Maybe "damage to cavalry" (general and/or partucular damage bonus abilities) is a "special occasion" to change priorities for AI archers?
|
|
|
|
Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 14, 2017 4:05:13 GMT
Many times I've seen, that AI's archers attack my Saladin first, though he was not by any means the weakest target within the range. And in Invasions they are not only choosing cavalry but even are moving (at least some of them) towards cavalry units if they are out of range. Maybe "damage to cavalry" (general and/or partucular damage bonus abilities) is a "special occasion" to change priorities for AI archers? Maybe because he is the only range 1? Another example, Genghis and Suleiman, Genghis is stronger but the archers will still attack him because he has less defense. It might also be possible that that archer sees Saladin first. |
|
|
|
Post by stoic on Feb 14, 2017 4:28:51 GMT
I think it will be interesting to observe behaviour and patterns of "additional damage to cavalry" units during Invasions...
|
|
|
|
Post by Singlemalt on Feb 14, 2017 6:01:56 GMT
Manstein what is your progress? In what age are you? I
Must agree with the other at this point but knowing your outstanding insight inec3 I am openminded. Did you use these teams in endgame campaigns?
|
|
|
|
Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 14, 2017 6:20:40 GMT
Manstein what is your progress? In what age are you? I Must agree with the other at this point but knowing your outstanding insight inec3 I am openminded. Did you use these teams in endgame campaigns? TBH I just began the game. All my knowledges about EW5 are from the guides of those advanced players who have passed the game already, and my communications with them. And I shared all what I've got. These two lineups are the most recommended ones now in the EW5 Chinese forum. |
|
|
|
Post by Singlemalt on Feb 14, 2017 6:56:15 GMT
Manstein what is your progress? In what age are you? I Must agree with the other at this point but knowing your outstanding insight inec3 I am openminded. Did you use these teams in endgame campaigns? TBH I just began the game. All my knowledges about EW5 are from the guides of those advanced players who have passed the game already, and my communications with them. And I shared all what I've got. These two lineups are the most recommended ones now in the EW5 Chinese forum. As i tried to state above i thought you had your reasons. I have to go back which line ups you mean tbh  |
|
|
|
Post by andrei on Feb 14, 2017 7:46:38 GMT
You are too theoretical. Have You ever tried 2 commanders and 3 commanders in one team? Have You calculated the difference? Pure mathematics doesn't work here. Take a look at the team with 2 and 3 commanders. And there will be small difference. So this god-like buff is same god-like with two commanders. Ok, You'll miss 1-2 turns being buffed in a mission. Worth having crap general instead of a good one? But You can add someone like Saladin with Logistics or Suleiman with Cover instead of crappy Asoka. Even Huo and Hannibal are better than the guy with Shelter. It could be not even a cavalry that You can add in Your team! There are people using cavalry line up, and they blitz through campaigns mostly with Attila Asoka Edward only(a few times Nobunaga or so). A commander makes huge difference. 150%^2=225%, 150%^3=337.5%. Do you think 225% Saladin or Suleiman can deal higher damage than 112.5% Attila+Edward+337.5%Asoka? You are simply ignoring what I am saying. Are You sure You'll be able to activate all 3 commanders at the same time? Are You sure You'll be able to place whole You team on the map in the way that all Your archers get into all 3 commanders aura at the same time? Moreover You need to do that in the moment when Your team really needs it. Very doubtfully, taking into account that often dangerous enemies are waiting for You under the fog of war in some narrow passages. Theory is great, no doubt. Possibility to benefit from 3 commanders with all of Your team at the same time is something unrealistic. I am pretty sure chinese guys are great players but it doesn't mean that all they are saying on their forum is 100% correct. |
|
|
|
Post by Erich von Manstein on Feb 14, 2017 12:55:49 GMT
There are people using cavalry line up, and they blitz through campaigns mostly with Attila Asoka Edward only(a few times Nobunaga or so). A commander makes huge difference. 150%^2=225%, 150%^3=337.5%. Do you think 225% Saladin or Suleiman can deal higher damage than 112.5% Attila+Edward+337.5%Asoka? You are simply ignoring what I am saying. Are You sure You'll be able to activate all 3 commanders at the same time? Are You sure You'll be able to place whole You team on the map in the way that all Your archers get into all 3 commanders aura at the same time? Moreover You need to do that in the moment when Your team really needs it. Very doubtfully, taking into account that often dangerous enemies are waiting for You under the fog of war in some narrow passages. Theory is great, no doubt. Possibility to benefit from 3 commanders with all of Your team at the same time is something unrealistic. I am pretty sure chinese guys are great players but it doesn't mean that all they are saying on their forum is 100% correct. That's archer commander, another issue here. Archer commanders activate their skills against the VPs, while cavalry commander can get 3 auras permanent after like 5-6 turns. |
|
