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Post by andrei on Mar 16, 2017 19:36:17 GMT
Most of the game could be completed without using Commander skill. I completed (3 stars) almost all the campaign with only Nelson at lv6 Commander - 35% buff or something like that. And only one last campaign mission (and several empire missions) required two generals with Commander skill upgraded.
So including one-shot general - Jhansi - into the team is kind of a perfectionism. You will need to cover her all the time. And she is 100% one-shot frag in the end-missions in Empire mode.
And I still think there is no enough space on the map to place three generals with Commander activated effectively. At least in the missions where You really need a lot of firepower it is difficult to place just two Commanders. I assume that positive feedback about her was from the players who used her INSTEAD of Li Hongzang or Nelson - not with both of them at the same time.
P.S.: Two commanders activated provide quite solid firepower. My best result was 5024 damage (red marked - critical, I suppose) in Wuhan. Washington (with Keel sword equiped) made almost one-shoot kill of quite strong enemy general.
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Mar 17, 2017 2:56:24 GMT
Without Plunder I wouldn't even use her. XD Plunder, Commander, Inspiration - these are good skills, so it is at least understandable why she gets a good press... Understandable, but I respectfully disagree otherwise. Inspiration is just extra attack and defense, right? Well its extra attack/defense based on a grey stat line in her case. I have not measured it, but I believe inspiration would give her more defense than Catherine (blue, normally more) while leaving her still with less attack and well over 100 less health. While an objectively good skill, its much the same for Plunder, though less severe. It can only work to make her low health bearable, and she needs to kill to activate it. Commander is her only real skill of indisputable value, and she is competing with Nelson and Li Hongzhang (purple and blue stat lines, both having other abilities which do more than mask their weakness) Li Hongzhang is considered the cheap version of Nelson-What then, Jhansi? Cheap version of a cheap version? At some point the lower power and particularly durability overwhelms the monetary value. Anyway, I will add your estimation of Barbarossa. I will assume it to fall to half that for the previous era, since I have no actual records-if I do an analysis I have to calculate the costs of purple/gold generals from their starting units. Though to avoid mistakes I can write "awaiting further knowledge" and give a partial cost. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Mar 17, 2017 3:05:27 GMT
Plunder, Commander, Inspiration - these are good skills, so it is at least understandable why she gets a good press... Understandable, but I respectfully disagree otherwise. Inspiration is just extra attack and defense, right? Well its extra attack/defense based on a grey stat line in her case. I have not measured it, but I believe inspiration would give her more defense than Catherine (blue, normally more) while leaving her still with less attack and well over 100 less health. While an objectively good skill, its much the same for Plunder, though less severe. It can only work to make her low health bearable, and she needs to kill to activate it. Commander is her only real skill of indisputable value, and she is competing with Nelson and Li Hongzhang (purple and blue stat lines, both having other abilities which do more than mask their weakness) Li Hongzhang is considered the cheap version of Nelson-What then, Jhansi? Cheap version of a cheap version? At some point the lower power and particularly durability overwhelms the monetary value. Anyway, I will add your estimation of Barbarossa. I will assume it to fall to half that for the previous era, since I have no actual records-if I do an analysis I have to calculate the costs of purple/gold generals from their starting units. 1. With good equipment(at least purple), Jhansi and Pachacuti exceed all blue archers on attack (see Cleopatra and Bismarck comparison), well, still lower than Yi Sun-sin. 2. Of course you will give her kills, don't you want to activate her skill? 3. ArchCom can have 5, even 7-8 archers. Including Nobunaga, Nelson and Li Hongzhang, you still have Moctezuma, Catherine, Jebe and Jhansi as choices (Pachacuti is too fragile, and Robin is simply crap comparing to the rest), so why not choosing Jhansi who can give another team buff with only 2k? |
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Post by stoic on Mar 17, 2017 3:13:54 GMT
I hope new players will give precise information on early ages upgrades...
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Mar 17, 2017 3:18:21 GMT
Erich von Manstein, 1. I honestly never understood this argument. Yes, with better equipment they are equal-but wouldn't you be using these items ON the blue/purple generals you are not using because you got Cleo/Jhansi? I guess if you are simply using different items for your entire team, but it still seems like using items that could be used on naturally stronger generals simply to make up for the faults of your cheaper picks. 2. Fair enough, You can't kill every turn, at least not with Jhansi! But its the goal. 3. That is mostly true for a archer-line up, as you describe, while most players use different generals from all across the board. Even those interested in a focused team might be going Cavalry, not Archery. I'd argue Jebe and maybe Catherine are weak....but maybe not, and its not the point of this discussion. In a generalized or Cavalry line up, Choosing a stronger archer or 2 is much better, Jhansi shouldn't be your choice. In such a case, those who desire commander might choose Nelson or even Hongzhang instead. Maybe in an Archer line-up Jhansi would be valued, maybe...
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Mar 17, 2017 3:26:41 GMT
I hope new players will give precise information on early ages upgrades... I should ask those we know are restarting... After all, very new players probably won't be volunteering info, not in any likelihood I mean. Singlemalt linked this thread, I in fact have the honour (only because of value of course) of so far one of 2 threads to be considered "objective" info, the other yours. As OP I find no or little issue with continued discussion cluttering the thread, but I will have to make sure the first post is detailed. It is the objective and important part of this thread. |
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Post by stoic on Mar 17, 2017 3:51:56 GMT
And I will try to find missing parts...
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Post by stoic on Mar 17, 2017 4:00:55 GMT
By the way you can single out Jhansi' discussion as a different thread (or ask Singlemalt to do that)...
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Mar 17, 2017 4:37:09 GMT
Perhaps I should...
Would have to ask a mod anyway, don't know how to divide threads.
I just remembered I am getting a medieval age purple general. Will take awhile, but I will eventually have the stats for purple generals....everything but classical. Gold will remain unknown.
Yes, will have some data to add, but take quite a bit of time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2017 2:57:53 GMT
So blucher is purple for you guys? Funny he is blue on kindle...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2017 3:00:15 GMT
.org/image/vvn8wyj7l/]  [/url] |
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Post by forhonor on Mar 18, 2017 3:09:46 GMT
General progression age upgrade
Medival to empire
Gold (Alex etc.)-300
Purple (atilla etc.)- 240
Blue (Hannibal etc.)-200
Grey(leonidas etc.)unknown
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Post by forhonor on Mar 18, 2017 3:10:41 GMT
aaa, that is weird
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Mar 18, 2017 3:33:40 GMT
So blucher is purple for you guys? Funny he is blue on kindle... Haha, Kindle speaks the secret truth. Blucher's low attack was no mistake! He is actually blue! (I hope he is cheaper on Kindle then. Makes no sense for him to be in purple/gold general only section...perhaps glitch) |
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Post by Imperial RomeBall on Mar 18, 2017 3:44:23 GMT
More info on purple and gold generals added thanks to forhonor  Still need Gold upgrading from empire to discovery. The Purple difference between empire and discovery seems like a LOT. I will be checking this later...much later. I have blue generals, and for medieval to empire I have noticed 180 instead of 200. Perhaps I am wrong, or they also vary a little like some have said about gold and potentially others. |
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