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Post by saltin on Aug 12, 2017 5:26:13 GMT
The AI finally beat (as in completely crushed) the best Dota2 player in the world.
This is surprising because unlike Chess or Go games (both already conquered by the AI) Dota2 has a large number of non-predictable variables with dozens of items and a hundred plus heroes, each with different capabilities.
Another surprising element was that traditionally the AI didnt do very well in scenarios where players fake things and deliberately mislead in order to gain a tactical advantage but nope..not this AI, it can see it all 😁
I didnt see the 2 matches played but apparently this elite player was so stunned by the skill of the AI that he forfeited any future matches with it as well.
Here is a video about it:
I think the AI technologies,the robotics and automation will probably be one of the hotest and most in demand field in the future. Good career choice similar to what computer programming field once offered.
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Big Mac
First Lieutenant
Sometimes I Haiku. It Gets Very Extremely Hard. I do it Anyway
Posts: 22 
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Post by Big Mac on Aug 12, 2017 5:37:12 GMT
Random Number Generation is Actually Based on Some Complicated Algorithms or Something, and Feints can be Learned I Guess. No Big Surprise
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Post by The Light Bringer on Aug 12, 2017 10:34:34 GMT
Random Number Generation is Actually Based on Some Complicated Algorithms or Something, and Feints can be Learned I Guess. No Big Surprise Random is not random if you are talking about AI and programming, it is a mass of variables, that are chosen by cpu as of clock timing... It is harder to explain than that, but you get the main idea, so it is possible to predict random settings for any AI... saltin speaking about AI they doesn't own humans on chess yet, there are quite a lot of possibilities for humans to make non anticipated moves and AI failes to recognize some situations as simple as they actually are, so check for example chess puzzles, AI is capable of finding solution only to few of them... While AI is extremely advanced it has its flaws and it won't get the results on every case, ans while AI can learn and become smarter by every second it is also not thinking like human... |
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Post by saltin on Aug 12, 2017 11:06:44 GMT
No no the Ai has been able to beat humans at both chess and Go.
In Chess the AI is so advanced that much of the world players cannot even begin to understand how it plays (till it's too late). Very advanced players do of course since they play that way too but it takes a life time of practice and they have to be very gifted to start with.
I play fairly average chess myself and it's very difficult for me to appreciate the AI play style (or grand master games) because I cannot see that many moves ahead and the various combinations and possibilities as the AI can.
Most humans other than masters and grandmaster play chess as a tactical game (meaning they are trying to gain a material advantage for example) but the best players in the world and the AI are way more advanced than that,they rarely make tactical mistakes, for them it's all about positioning and gaining small incremental advantages.
The surprising factor for the dota2 match (it actually surprised the AI creator too) is the insane speed at which the AI self taught itself. Starting from scratch It played itself for 2 weeks straight and came out blowing away lifetimes worth of human
gaming.
So for 2 weeks it faced itself (so equal strength opponent) and won and lost at the same time each and every game, and learned from all of that .
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Post by The Light Bringer on Aug 12, 2017 12:10:31 GMT
No no the Ai has been able to beat humans at both chess and Go. In Chess the AI is so advanced that much of the world players cannot even begin to understand how it plays (till it's too late). Very advanced players do of course since they play that way too but it takes a life time of practice and they have to be very gifted to start with. I play fairly average chess myself and it's very difficult for me to appreciate the AI play style (or a grand master games) because I cannot see that many moves ahead and the various combinations and possibilities as the AI can. Most humans other than masters and grandmaster play chess as a tactical game (meaning they are trying to gain a material advantage for example) but the best players in the world and the AI are way more advanced than that,they rarely make tactical mistakes, for them it's all about positioning and gaining small incremental advantages. The surprising factor for the dota2 match (it actually surprised the AI creator too) is the insane speed at which the AI self taught itself. Starting from scratch It played itself for 2 weeks straight and came out blowing away lifetimes worth of human gaming. So for 2 weeks it faced itself (so equal strength opponent) and won and lost at the same time each and every game, and learned from all of that . I have been playing chess since I was 3 years old and that's how I got to playing strategy games in first place. I can tell you that average chess player is no match for best AI out there, but AI although it can analyze x10000000 time more data than human, it hasn't been able to completely win human yet, chess puzzles are one of such examples, AI overthinks moves that may seem worse than others, but human makes decision not only based on logics, but it takes feeling and analytics, in such way AI doesn't understand yet, it may take years till AI are as advanced |
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Big Mac
First Lieutenant
Sometimes I Haiku. It Gets Very Extremely Hard. I do it Anyway
Posts: 22
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Post by Big Mac on Aug 12, 2017 17:18:09 GMT
Random Number Generation is Actually Based on Some Complicated Algorithms or Something, and Feints can be Learned I Guess. No Big Surprise Random is not random if you are talking about AI and programming, it is a mass of variables, that are chosen by cpu as of clock timing... It is harder to explain than that, but you get the main idea, so it is possible to predict random settings for any AI... saltin speaking about AI they doesn't own humans on chess yet, there are quite a lot of possibilities for humans to make non anticipated moves and AI failes to recognize some situations as simple as they actually are, so check for example chess puzzles, AI is capable of finding solution only to few of them... While AI is extremely advanced it has its flaws and it won't get the results on every case, ans while AI can learn and become smarter by every second it is also not thinking like human... That is Basically What I Said. And Yes, Humans Still Have Ways to Fool Chess Ais, but Usually they Beat Us. |
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Post by The Light Bringer on Aug 12, 2017 17:24:32 GMT
Random is not random if you are talking about AI and programming, it is a mass of variables, that are chosen by cpu as of clock timing... It is harder to explain than that, but you get the main idea, so it is possible to predict random settings for any AI... saltin speaking about AI they doesn't own humans on chess yet, there are quite a lot of possibilities for humans to make non anticipated moves and AI failes to recognize some situations as simple as they actually are, so check for example chess puzzles, AI is capable of finding solution only to few of them... While AI is extremely advanced it has its flaws and it won't get the results on every case, ans while AI can learn and become smarter by every second it is also not thinking like human... That is Basically What I Said. And Yes, Humans Still Have Ways to Fool Chess Ais, but Usually they Beat Us. Well it is the matter of how high level of AI and how good player are playing😉 |
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Post by Mountbatten on Aug 12, 2017 21:21:33 GMT
No no the Ai has been able to beat humans at both chess and Go. In Chess the AI is so advanced that the much of the world players cannot even begin to understand how it plays (till it's too late). Very advanced players do of course since they play that way too but it takes a life time of practice and they have to be very gifted to start with. I play fairly average chess myself and it's very difficult for me to appreciate the AI play style (or a grand master games) because I cannot see that many moves ahead and the various combinations and possibilities as the AI can. Most humans other than masters and grandmaster play chess as a tactical game (meaning they are trying to gain a material advantage for example) but the best players in the world and the AI are way more advanced than that,they rarely make tactical mistakes, for them it's all about positioning and gaining small incremental advantages. The surprising factor for the dota2 match (it actually surprised the AI creator too) is the insane speed at which the AI self taught itself. Starting from scratch It played itself for 2 weeks straight and came out blowing away lifetimes worth of human gaming. So for 2 weeks it faced itself (so equal strength opponent) and won and lost at the same time each and every game, and learned from all of that . I have been playing chess since I was 3 years old and that's how I got to playing strategy games in first place. I can tell you that average chess player is no match for best AI out there, but AI although it can analyze x10000000 time more data than human, it hasn't been able to completely win human yet, chess puzzles are one of such examples, AI overthinks moves that may seem worse than others, but human makes decision not only based on logics, but it takes feeling and analytics, in such way AI doesn't understand yet, it may take years till AI are as advanced I used to be really good at chess. Haven't played in a few years, I probably suck now |
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Post by The Light Bringer on Aug 15, 2017 8:52:58 GMT
I think that this is a very good example of what I was talking about:
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Post by stoic on Aug 15, 2017 9:13:43 GMT
I think that this is a very good example of what I was talking about: Nakamura was beaten by Komodo though in 2016. And Nakamura had a head start. 4 moves odds in one of the games, exchange in another etc!!! I'm sure the competition between AI and humans in chess is over... |
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Post by stoic on Aug 15, 2017 9:54:59 GMT
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Post by The Light Bringer on Aug 15, 2017 10:02:14 GMT
I think that this is a very good example of what I was talking about: Nakamura was beaten by Komodo though in 2016. And Nakamura had a head start. 4 moves odds in one of the games, exchange in another etc!!! I'm sure the competition between AI and humans in chess is over... And how about Carlsen Magnus?😉 |
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Post by The Light Bringer on Aug 15, 2017 10:03:25 GMT
Nakamura is one the best chess players in the world and he could play with engine only with odds now. It is terrifying...I hope we will be able to say that about AI in ET games soon enough  That's so different level of AI, this chess AI could burn anything less capable than IBM watson lol |
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Post by stoic on Aug 15, 2017 10:14:55 GMT
Many say that Magnus himself plays like a computer, but I'm afraid the new generation of engines makes even great players look small... 4 moves handicap in King's indian defence with white pieces(Nakamura is a leading expert in this opening!)... That is something!!!
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Post by stoic on Aug 15, 2017 10:40:24 GMT
Btw chess programs for smartphones are a way better now than a couple of years ago. For example DroidFish Chess. It is free (and only 5.5 Mb), so if anybody wants to know, how is it - to loose to your own smartphone - you can try it |
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