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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Oct 31, 2017 19:53:41 GMT
He's with AF1 or you already upgraded him AF? Not yet, but I definitely will do this after I get a medal. It seems to be quite a good skill. Have you any information how AF works in WC4? |
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Post by andrei on Oct 31, 2017 20:27:24 GMT
Not yet, but I definitely will do this after I get a medal. It seems to be quite a good skill. Have you any information how AF works in WC4? You mean difference between ranks of the units? Here are screenshots from stoic |
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Post by stoic on Nov 1, 2017 2:04:41 GMT
And I think we need a fully upgraded technology tree to see its potential.
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Nov 1, 2017 4:19:40 GMT
Have you any information how AF works in WC4? You mean difference between ranks of the units? Here are screenshots from stoic Yes, I mean how level up works. Hmm... Just 30 hp per level. If current HP don't increase more than max, this is some kid of crap. |
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Post by stoic on Nov 1, 2017 5:11:51 GMT
Yes, I mean how level up works. Hmm... Just 30 hp per level. If current HP don't increase more than max, this is some kid of crap. Tanks and cruisers have a lot of HP in WC4, attack and defense are more important, imo... |
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Post by stoic on Nov 1, 2017 5:59:24 GMT
I think andrei is right in his assumption that the most important thing is basic unit's statistics. All other thigs - Generals, skills, medals - only serve as boosters... |
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Nov 1, 2017 8:22:32 GMT
Yes, I mean how level up works. Hmm... Just 30 hp per level. If current HP don't increase more than max, this is some kid of crap. Tanks and cruisers have a lot of HP in WC4, attack and defense are more important, imo... Ah, I see not only hp but att and def too. That makes level up much more important. |
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Nov 1, 2017 8:29:58 GMT
I think andrei is right in his assumption that the most important thing is basic unit's statistics. All other thigs - Generals, skills, medals - only serve as boosters... Not all of them. Plain fighting (and others like it) just add constant damage. Same way work crowd tactics, tide of iron and like it. In fact such boosters are only armoured assault like skills and leader skills. |
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Post by andrei on Nov 1, 2017 9:37:58 GMT
I think andrei is right in his assumption that the most important thing is basic unit's statistics. All other thigs - Generals, skills, medals - only serve as boosters... Not all of them. Plain fighting (and others like it) just add constant damage. Same way work crowd tactics, tide of iron and like it. In fact such boosters are only armoured assault like skills and leader skills. Those are added on top, while unit's attack is affected by assault and leader. Great difference. |
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Nov 1, 2017 9:46:27 GMT
Not all of them. Plain fighting (and others like it) just add constant damage. Same way work crowd tactics, tide of iron and like it. In fact such boosters are only armoured assault like skills and leader skills. Those are added on top, while unit's attack is affected by assault and leader. Great difference. Not always, especially on low levels and when you don't dedicated gen for each speciality. For example I have Timoshenko whose damage is around 50-60 with PF 3. PF adds 15 damage to tank, inf and art. If I had armoured assault, with my tech that would be some 9-12 extra damage and only for tanks. |
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Post by andrei on Nov 1, 2017 9:52:47 GMT
Those are added on top, while unit's attack is affected by assault and leader. Great difference. Not always, especially on low levels and when you don't dedicated gen for each speciality. For example I have Timoshenko whose damage is around 50-60 with PF 3. PF adds 15 damage to tank, inf and art. If I had armoured assault, with my tech that would be some 9-12 extra damage and only for tanks. Such profit is visible for the very start and only for the generals who has already reasonable level of these skills (means You do not need to upgrade it). You will definetely won't upgrade plain fighting for Your only general while You need to buy another one or You need to upgrade other better skills like assault of leader. There are few usable generals like Timoshenko or Govorov where You can really benefit from these skills early game. |
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Nov 1, 2017 10:33:26 GMT
Not always, especially on low levels and when you don't dedicated gen for each speciality. For example I have Timoshenko whose damage is around 50-60 with PF 3. PF adds 15 damage to tank, inf and art. If I had armoured assault, with my tech that would be some 9-12 extra damage and only for tanks. Such profit is visible for the very start and only for the generals who has already reasonable level of these skills (means You do not need to upgrade it). You will definetely won't upgrade plain fighting for Your only general while You need to buy another one or You need to upgrade other better skills like assault of leader. There are few usable generals like Timoshenko or Govorov where You can really benefit from these skills early game. Depends on current level of PF and assault. If prices raise as fast as in wc3, than upgrading from lv4 to lv5 have to cost approximately the same as from lv1 to lv4. Also keep in mind, that you have only 1 medal which boosts skill, so someone will have increased effect of assault and someone of PF. That's not so straightforward even in late game. |
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Post by andrei on Nov 1, 2017 10:45:01 GMT
Such profit is visible for the very start and only for the generals who has already reasonable level of these skills (means You do not need to upgrade it). You will definetely won't upgrade plain fighting for Your only general while You need to buy another one or You need to upgrade other better skills like assault of leader. There are few usable generals like Timoshenko or Govorov where You can really benefit from these skills early game. Depends on current level of PF and assault. If prices raise as fast as in wc3, than upgrading from lv4 to lv5 have to cost approximately the same as from lv1 to lv4. Also keep in mind, that you have only 1 medal which boosts skill, so someone will have increased effect of assault and someone of PF. That's not so straightforward even in late game. Just for You to compare. Manstein with PF medal on double stack medium tank hits 120-130 Guderian with Assault and Leader on the same unit against same target hits 220-230 Uncomparable difference. And in case You give assault and leader medal to Manstein it is 250-260. As I told many times - plaing/jungle/mountain - are OK, good damage. I am not against it. But by the time You can afford medals spending on these skills You already have several generals who need assault/accuracy/raider and leader to upgrade. Those skills are much more beneficial. And it appears that this damage boost is not decisive. That's why I think that it is really good with generals like Mannerheim or Govorov who has lv4 from the very beginning. But the benefit from lv1 or lv2 is simply almost nothing. But if You are fond of PF - no problem, spend medals on it. It is really helpful damage boost. The question is price. |
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Nov 1, 2017 11:02:45 GMT
Depends on current level of PF and assault. If prices raise as fast as in wc3, than upgrading from lv4 to lv5 have to cost approximately the same as from lv1 to lv4. Also keep in mind, that you have only 1 medal which boosts skill, so someone will have increased effect of assault and someone of PF. That's not so straightforward even in late game. Just for You to compare. Manstein with PF medal on double stack medium tank hits 120-130 Guderian with Assault and Leader on the same unit against same target hits 220-230 Uncomparable difference. And in case You give assault and leader medal to Manstein it is 250-260. As I told many times - plaing/jungle/mountain - are OK, good damage. I am not against it. But by the time You can afford medals spending on these skills You already have several generals who need assault/accuracy/raider and leader to upgrade. Those skills are much more beneficial. And it appears that this damage boost is not decisive. That's why I think that it is really good with generals like Mannerheim or Govorov who has lv4 from the very beginning. But the benefit from lv1 or lv2 is simply almost nothing. But if You are fond of PF - no problem, spend medals on it. It is really helpful damage boost. The question is price. Have you read what I have written about option to choose 3 levels of PF (7% each) or 1 level of assault? I think no. BTW, I don't know where have you found Manstein without assault, because he already has it on lv2. The same as Guderian. And both of them have leader. If Manstein has less damage that Guderian, that means plain fighting lowers damage not raises it. Or may be you mean Guderian has lv5 leader and assault while Manstein base 3 and 2? Can you show me that genius who upgraded Guderian skills to lv5 while keeping Manstein's at base level? And according to what you have said 2 levels of leader + 3 levels of assault almost double damage. Very interesting, than at lv5 these skills have to multiply damage 4 times. |
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Post by andrei on Nov 1, 2017 11:29:01 GMT
Just for You to compare. Manstein with PF medal on double stack medium tank hits 120-130 Guderian with Assault and Leader on the same unit against same target hits 220-230 Uncomparable difference. And in case You give assault and leader medal to Manstein it is 250-260. As I told many times - plaing/jungle/mountain - are OK, good damage. I am not against it. But by the time You can afford medals spending on these skills You already have several generals who need assault/accuracy/raider and leader to upgrade. Those skills are much more beneficial. And it appears that this damage boost is not decisive. That's why I think that it is really good with generals like Mannerheim or Govorov who has lv4 from the very beginning. But the benefit from lv1 or lv2 is simply almost nothing. But if You are fond of PF - no problem, spend medals on it. It is really helpful damage boost. The question is price. Have you read what I have written about option to choose 3 levels of PF (7% each) or 1 level of assault? I think no. BTW, I don't know where have you found Manstein without assault, because he already has it on lv2. The same as Guderian. And both of them have leader. If Manstein has less damage that Guderian, that means plain fighting lowers damage not raises it. Or may be you mean Guderian has lv5 leader and assault while Manstein base 3 and 2? Can you show me that genius who upgraded Guderian skills to lv5 while keeping Manstein's at base level? And according to what you have said 2 levels of leader + 3 levels of assault almost double damage. Very interesting, than at lv5 these skills have to multiply damage 4 times. Both Manstein and Guderian have maxed leader and assault. Manstein has lv5 PF also. With those figures I just showed that PF is added on top. And how medals for assault and leader affects the damage dramatically. Means You will prefer to upgrade artillery accuracy/leader, tank assault/leader, infantry raider/leader and navy's leader before You will even think about PF/JF/MF. |
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