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Post by odm on Nov 15, 2017 2:38:41 GMT
One of the many new things that WC4 added is the 5 generals pretty good generals which can be got by completing some special one-time missions. There are 3 missions, the first one which unlocks the general, the second that offers a -20% discount on medals and a third one which give a -40% discount on medals (based on the full price). Those 5 generals are: Rundstedt in Vienna:2300/1840/1380 (Infantry)  Rating 8/10 Defensive infantry with air potential Main competitors:Yamashita, Vasilevsky, Mannerheim, Model, Kuribayashi, Nasser He has very good rank and stars for medal cost, however the skills are not the best (especially elastic defense and also street fighting) The main problem is the he can't be succesufully used past WW2 scenarios, since infantry is not good at defending cities besides emergency(because while they have best health/cost ratio, the lack ranged attack and also have low defense and all tanks besides light tanks have bonus damage against it). Yaashita is better skill-wise, but he's a rank lower and costs 1000 more medals, making it value/price much worse... The same holds true for Vasilevsky and Mannerheim, which areabout 300-500 medals more expansive and also lack the 5th skill. Recommended skills: Raider+Infantry Leader/Rumor Konev in Moscow:2655/2124/1593 (Artillery) 
Rating 9/10 Artillery/secondary infantry Main competitors:Leeb, Alexander, Govorov, Zhang Z. Z. As said many times the 2nd best artillery ingame, after Zhukov. Looks a bit pricey compared to Leeb and Badoglio, but he's better than Govorov (sadly he has bad output due to artillery barrage) which is 500 more. Fine rank for medal cost, considering the lack of importance of this due to artillery's low health. The infantry potential, given by the 4(5) infantry stars and raider makes him good enough for using in infantry invasions/exercises which helps saving a lot of medals. Recommended skills:Rumor+Plain Fighting/Explosives Rommel in Berlin:2785/2228/1671 (Tank)  Rating 9/10 Defensive tank Main competitors:Guderian, Vatutin, Montgomery, Rokosovsky, Graziani The Desert Fox is a bit dissapointing due to his desert fighting skill. Crossfire is also not the best since AI likes to attack low health units, like artillery. Still, considering the alternatives, Guderian has a lot better skills but he is almost double the price and even lower rank. Also better than Vatutin for lower price... if you manage to do his missions which are like hell. One thing to be noted is the other stars, 3(5) for artillery and 2(4) for navy , which when upgraded can prove a decent alternative for specialised generals and help save up medals.
Reccomended skills:Panzer Leader+Blitzkrieg/Rumor
Nimitz in New York:2945/2356/1767 (Navy/Air)  Rating 9/10 Navy loner Main competitors:Donitz. Yamamoto, Nagumo, Mountbatten, Halsey Eisenhower's navy wingman (with Yamamoto being the air(craft) one). Good skills and rank. Also has decent carrier capability, unlike Donitz. Very good rank for medal cost. Probably second best skills for navy, after Donitz. Tough missions though. Reccomended skills:Sailor/Explosives(if it works against ships)+Rumor Dowding in London:2235/1788/1341 (Air/Artillery)  Rating 9/10 Air general on artillery Main competitors:Arnold, Yamamoto Cheaper than Arnold for some use on artillery(being similar with Yama. in this aspect). Very good rank for price, however he is the only silver tier general from those than can be got from cities. +1 for easy missions in which multiple unit types can be used. Reccomended skill:Carpet Bombing Some genenal tips: -the missions are in ascending difficulty order and by general Dowding<Rundstedt<Konev<Nimitz<Rommel; -always get the general at -40% discount; this way you will save a lot of medals; -completing the missions also rewards you with some medals; 25 for the first ones, 50 for the second and  for third (please tell me) -if you have the medals to buy a general straight away, it might be worth sacrificing a lot of legions by doing a mission (since they are one time and the general will greatly help in campaign and domination); the third set of missions is also a good to use some of the worst units (light/assault infantry, field artillery, armored car/light tank, destroyer) that you bought at the beggining, because they allow a lot of units to fight; -by usefulness I would rank them Rommel>Nimitz>Konev>Rundstedt>Dowding; -by usefulness/price the rank is:Rommel>Konev>Rundstedt>Nimitz>Dowding; -Nimitz+Dowding make a much cheaper pair than Donitz and Yamamoto, with about the same capability TBA:Every mission pictures and guides... I will need some help with Nimitz and Rommel 3rd since I restarted the game about 2 weeks ago. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Nov 15, 2017 14:58:43 GMT
3rd clear should be 75 medals, going by the medal pattern.
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Post by Henri Winkelman on Nov 15, 2017 20:25:59 GMT
One of the many new things that WC4 added is the 5 generals pretty good generals which can be got by completing some special one-time missions. There are 3 missions, the first one which unlocks the general, the second that offers a -20% discount on medals and a third one which give a -40% discount on medals (based on the full price). Those 5 generals are: Rundstedt in Vienna:2300/1840/1380 (Infantry) Rating 8/10 Defensive infantry with air potential Main competitors:Yamashita, Vasilevsky, Mannerheim, Model, Kuribayashi, Nasser He has very good rank and stars for medal cost, however the skills are not the best (especially elastic defense and also street fighting) The main problem is the he can't be succesufully used past WW2 scenarios, since infantry is not good at defending cities besides emergency(because while they have best health/cost ratio, the lack ranged attack and also have low defense and all tanks besides light tanks have bonus damage against it). Yaashita is better skill-wise, but he's a rank lower and costs 1000 more medals, making it value/price much worse... The same holds true for Vasilevsky and Mannerheim, which areabout 300-500 medals more expansive and also lack the 5th skill. Recommended skills: Raider+Infantry Leader/Rumor Konev in Moscow:2655/2124/1593 (Artillery)
Rating 9/10 Artillery/secondary infantry Main competitors:Leeb, Alexander, Govorov, Zhang Z. Z. As said many times the 2nd best artillery ingame, after Zhukov. Looks a bit pricey compared to Leeb and Badoglio, but he's better than Govorov (sadly he has bad output due to artillery barrage) which is 500 more. Fine rank for medal cost, considering the lack of importance of this due to artillery's low health. The infantry potential, given by the 4(5) infantry stars and raider makes him good enough for using in infantry invasions/exercises which helps saving a lot of medals. Recommended skills:Rumor+Plain Fighting/Explosives Rommel in Berlin:2785/2228/1671 (Tank) Rating 8/10 Defensive tank Main competitors:Guderian, Vatutin, Montgomery, Rokosovsky, Graziani The Desert Fox is a bit dissapointing due to his desert fighting skill. Crossfire is also not the best since AI likes to attack low health units, like artillery. Still, considering the alternatives, Guderian has a lot better skills but he is almost double the price and even lower rank. Also better than Vatutin for lower price... if you manage to do his missions which are like hell. One thing to be noted is the other stars, 3(5) for artillery and 2(4) for navy , which when upgraded can prove a decent alternative for specialised generals and help save up medals.
Reccomended skills:Panzer Leader+Blitzkrieg/Rumor
Nimitz in New York:2945/2356/1767 (Navy/Air) Rating 9/10 Navy loner Main competitors:Donitz. Yamamoto, Nagumo, Mountbatten, Halsey Eisenhower's navy wingman (with Yamamoto being the air(craft) one). Good skills and rank. Also has decent carrier capability, unlike Donitz. Very good rank for medal cost. Probably second best skills for navy, after Donitz. Tough missions though. Reccomended skills:Sailor/Explosives(if it works against ships)+Rumor Dowding in London:2235/1788/1341 (Air/Artillery) Rating 9/10 Air general on artillery Main competitors:Arnold, Yamamoto Cheaper than Arnold for some use on artillery(being similar with Yama. in this aspect). Very good rank for price, however he is the only silver tier general from those than can be got from cities. +1 for easy missions in which multiple unit types can be used. Reccomended skill:Carpet Bombing Some genenal tips: -the missions are in ascending difficulty order and by general Dowding<Rundstedt<Konev<Nimitz<Rommel; -always get the general at -40% discount; this way you will save a lot of medals; -completing the missions also rewards you with some medals; 25 for the first ones, 50 for the second and for third (please tell me) -if you have the medals to buy a general straight away, it might be worth sacrificing a lot of legions by doing a mission (since they are one time and the general will greatly help in campaign and domination); the third set of missions is also a good to use some of the worst units (light/assault infantry, field artillery, armored car/light tank, destroyer) that you bought at the beggining, because they allow a lot of units to fight; -by usefulness I would rank them Rommel>Nimitz>Konev>Rundstedt>Dowding; -by usefulness/price the rank is:Rommel>Konev>Rundstedt>Nimitz>Dowding; -Nimitz+Dowding make a much cheaper pair than Donitz and Yamamoto, with about the same capability TBA:Every mission pictures and guides... I will need some help with Nimitz and Rommel 3rd since I restarted the game about 2 weeks ago. First of all, great work. Though some minor mistakes: -Nimitz is an Air/Naval general, as he is strong on aircraft carriers and in cities with airport, due to his 5 stars in air. -Rommel should have a higher ranking, as he is considered the second best panzer general, with Guderian as best general. Rommel beats Rokossovsky, Vatutin and Graziani, because he is cheaper then all 3 when gotten the full discount, increasing his value/price ratio. He also deals more damage then Rokossovsky as he has 5 stars, instead of 6, but he makes it up with having 2 tank skills, while Rommel only has 1 and Graziani has none. -Crossfire is decent, if you capture a city with a general that has crossfire, the general is targetted instead of the low hp units, dealing extra damage. -Explosive doesn't work against ships, though it is a decent skill to have to destroy fortresses quickly, but I prefer sailor. -Legion units aren't a one time use. They go away if they are killed, if they survive the battle, no matter how much hp they have left, they will be able to be used in the next battle. |
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Post by odm on Nov 15, 2017 21:28:45 GMT
I've just written a 1000 word "story" and pressed back...
Long story short:
I agree with what you said about Rommel, but his missions are too difficult to get him at -40% without at least using Guderian, Vatutin and Messe, having unlocked S-Heavy Tank and having full Pacific Tech. Desert tiles are only in Africa and Saudi Arabia, which are probably some of least important areas income-wise. Crossfire is good, but it makes possible output lower, which in turn makes the tanks' main advantage, the ability to attack again, less valuable and also means increased received damaged while attacking.
Nimitz has no air skills at start and I followed ET's idea of having one inf., one art., one tank, one navy, one air. Also I feel it is better to assign him on double cruiser and not on carrier.
The thing about explosives is a recent edit made because in Skill Analysis it said that it also applies to ships (about which I am sceptical and needs to be tested). Still, it is nice to have it against coastal cities and forts.
I know a legion can be used again if it is not completely wiped out. The one time reffered to mission, that unlike Invasions you will not ever do need to do it again and the rewards are much more valuable
By the way, it seems I can't upload any image to postimage... does anybody else have this problem...? I wanted to show their photos but I couldn't
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Post by andrei on Nov 15, 2017 21:46:20 GMT
Looks like Henri Winkelman 's progress is not significant. Otherwise he would know that using general on Carrier is a bad idea in most cases. Air generals are really valuable only in conquests as air-strike commanders sitting in cities. Imo, Explosives is third (after rumor and fleet leader) best skill for navy general. In Skill Analisys thread it was meant that it is applicable for ships not against ships. Anyway Sailor is almost useless in case You have Rumor. With Rumor Your navy general is anyway invincible. |
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Post by Henri Winkelman on Nov 15, 2017 22:12:59 GMT
andrei, I know it is in most scenario’s not smart to put a general on a carrier, I have never done it, only on cruisers and in some occassions subs. I only used it as an odm, Sorry but Nimitz starts with 2 star inf, 5 star air, 1 star arty, 6 star navy and 2 star movement. I agree that Rommel’s last mission is really hard, but that should not be counted in his ratings as a general himself. Desert fighting is not the best terrain skill, but it is deff not useless, there is an invasion map that has loads of dessert tiles, which is often used, and it can be handy for the African scenario’s.
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Post by odm on Nov 15, 2017 22:18:33 GMT
So that makes Nimitz have best output and survivability if used as a pure navy? What do you think about depot ship? I know that +15 HP/turn is really low for a navy, but still if sailor is not that great it could be another choice
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Post by odm on Nov 15, 2017 22:25:35 GMT
andrei, I know it is in most scenario’s not smart to put a general on a carrier, I have never done it, only on cruisers and in some occassions subs. I only used it as an odm, Sorry but Nimitz starts with 2 star inf, 5 star air, 1 star arty, 6 star navy and 2 star movement. I agree that Rommel’s last mission is really hard, but that should not be counted in his ratings as a general himself. Desert fighting is not the best terrain skill, but it is deff not useless, there is an invasion map that has loads of dessert tiles, which is often used, and it can be handy for the African scenario’s. Crossfire will not be useful on invasions unless you send him kamikaze or he is left alone on high medal invasion after everybody else is dead (not advisable). The problem here is that the rule of thumb was Defense-Infantry, Offense-Tanks, Support-Artillery.. WC4 quite changed that but you can't argue that a tank's best defense is offense. |
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Post by andrei on Nov 15, 2017 22:32:31 GMT
So that makes Nimitz have best output and survivability if used as a pure navy? What do you think about depot ship? I know that +15 HP/turn is really low for a navy, but still if sailor is not that great it could be another choice As for me choice is easy. There are no good navy skills exept Leader and neutral Rumor. So I would take Explosives as the last one for Nimitz. Cruisers with Explosives humiliate city's fortifications even in case it is a capital city, which is very useful. Depot for a unit with such huge amount of HP is invisible imo. |
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Post by Henri Winkelman on Nov 16, 2017 6:01:45 GMT
So that makes Nimitz have best output and survivability if used as a pure navy? What do you think about depot ship? I know that +15 HP/turn is really low for a navy, but still if sailor is not that great it could be another choice Depot ship isnt the best skill for a navy commander, I made a threat asking which skill to give Nimitz besides rumor, which might help you decide aswell. european-war-4.boards.net/thread/7409/nimitz-skills?page=1&scrollTo=159773I chose for sailor, and I quite like it. |
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Post by Henri Winkelman on Nov 16, 2017 6:05:22 GMT
andrei , I know it is in most scenario’s not smart to put a general on a carrier, I have never done it, only on cruisers and in some occassions subs. I only used it as an odm , Sorry but Nimitz starts with 2 star inf, 5 star air, 1 star arty, 6 star navy and 2 star movement. I agree that Rommel’s last mission is really hard, but that should not be counted in his ratings as a general himself. Desert fighting is not the best terrain skill, but it is deff not useless, there is an invasion map that has loads of dessert tiles, which is often used, and it can be handy for the African scenario’s. Crossfire will not be useful on invasions unless you send him kamikaze or he is left alone on high medal invasion after everybody else is dead (not advisable). The problem here is that the rule of thumb was Defense-Infantry, Offense-Tanks, Support-Artillery.. WC4 quite changed that but you can't argue that a tank's best defense is offense. Many skills are made for specific situations. Certain terrain skills are often only good in invasions, crossfire and sailor are not so good in invasions, but they are decent in scenario’s, conquest, hold the ground, the other types of that in domination and so on. |
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Post by Józef Poniatowski on Nov 17, 2017 14:23:00 GMT
andrei, I know it is in most scenario’s not smart to put a general on a carrier, I have never done it, only on cruisers and in some occassions subs. I only used it as an odm, Sorry but Nimitz starts with 2 star inf, 5 star air, 1 star arty, 6 star navy and 2 star movement. I agree that Rommel’s last mission is really hard, but that should not be counted in his ratings as a general himself. Desert fighting is not the best terrain skill, but it is deff not useless, there is an invasion map that has loads of dessert tiles, which is often used, and it can be handy for the African scenario’s. Crossfire will not be useful on invasions unless you send him kamikaze or he is left alone on high medal invasion after everybody else is dead (not advisable). The problem here is that the rule of thumb was Defense-Infantry, Offense-Tanks, Support-Artillery.. WC4 quite changed that but you can't argue that a tank's best defense is offense. Late game infantry is basically useless, so you will want to focus on tanks instead for both offense and defense. As far as tank generals go, Rommel has the highest output in the desert in the game, and still one of the best output generals everywhere else too. Saying that a tank's best defense is offense still works into Rommel's favor BECAUSE you can go in recklessly with him and watch enemy units evaporate against crossfire, the bonus damage of which gets quite silly if you level it fully on him and give him the medal for. In order to use Rommel, you have to put him into situations he will excell in, but when you do he really shines. |
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Post by stoic on Nov 17, 2017 14:38:14 GMT
So that makes Nimitz have best output and survivability if used as a pure navy? What do you think about depot ship? I know that +15 HP/turn is really low for a navy, but still if sailor is not that great it could be another choice As for me choice is easy. There are no good navy skills exept Leader and neutral Rumor. So I would take Explosives as the last one for Nimitz. Cruisers with Explosives humiliate city's fortifications even in case it is a capital city, which is very useful. Depot for a unit with such huge amount of HP is invisible imo. That was my idea as well, but I have a small dilemma. I'm able to defeat all 12 medal tank and inf Invasions. I'm working on Artillery right now (Konev + techs). But I have no idea whether or not Nimitz will be able to defeat all 12 medal Invasions with only Rumor and Leader skill... Sailor is not very effective in Invasions (because your general will not be attacked very often), but Wolfpack is an option. So I haven't decided yet... |
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Post by best75 on Nov 17, 2017 14:54:52 GMT
As for me choice is easy. There are no good navy skills exept Leader and neutral Rumor. So I would take Explosives as the last one for Nimitz. Cruisers with Explosives humiliate city's fortifications even in case it is a capital city, which is very useful. Depot for a unit with such huge amount of HP is invisible imo. That was my idea as well, but I have a small dilemma. I'm able to defeat all 12 medal tank and inf Invasions. I'm working on Artillery right now (Konev + techs). But I have no idea whether or not Nimitz will be able to defeat all 12 medal Invasions with only Rumor and Leader skill... Sailor is not very effective in Invasions (because your general will not be attacked very often), but Wolfpack is an option. So I haven't decided yet... I use Yamamoto and his only naval skills are rumor and fleet leader yet he is still able to beat all 12 medal navy invasions now. Nimitz has 6 star in navy so he will be doing better than my Yamamoto. |
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Post by best75 on Nov 17, 2017 15:16:21 GMT
Crossfire will not be useful on invasions unless you send him kamikaze or he is left alone on high medal invasion after everybody else is dead (not advisable). The problem here is that the rule of thumb was Defense-Infantry, Offense-Tanks, Support-Artillery.. WC4 quite changed that but you can't argue that a tank's best defense is offense. Late game infantry is basically useless, so you will want to focus on tanks instead for both offense and defense. As far as tank generals go, Rommel has the highest output in the desert in the game, and still one of the best output generals everywhere else too. Saying that a tank's best defense is offense still works into Rommel's favor BECAUSE you can go in recklessly with him and watch enemy units evaporate against crossfire, the bonus damage of which gets quite silly if you level it fully on him and give him the medal for. In order to use Rommel, you have to put him into situations he will excell in, but when you do he really shines. How well does Rommel's HP total survive in such situations? i imagine him getting attacked would take a toll in his hp and if he was attacked by some of the enemy generals I seen in modern war he would really suffer. |
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for third (please tell me)
