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Post by Mountbatten on Jun 14, 2018 21:12:31 GMT
So I've been sitting on my treasure trove of medals waiting for the cavalry update but after seeing the changes I am slightly disappointed. So now I need some advice for choosing my next general. I have Bolivar and Kutuzov currently. I have my eye on either Davout or Murat, Washington or Bismarck, or Nelson because Falsen is on Leonidas level of uselessness. Which unit type do I need to bolster? Do I even need a cavalry general? For those that have many infantry general's ( stoic  ) I'd like to hear your opinion on who you rely on the most. |
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Post by yuanzhong on Jun 14, 2018 22:27:30 GMT
So I've been sitting on my treasure trove of medals waiting for the cavalry update but after seeing the changes I am slightly disappointed. So now I need some advice for choosing my next general. I have Bolivar and Kutuzov currently. I have my eye on either Davout or Murat, Washington or Bismarck, or Nelson because Falsen is on Leonidas level of uselessness. Which unit type do I need to bolster? Do I even need a cavalry general? For those that have many infantry general's ( stoic ) I'd like to hear your opinion on who you rely on the most. Karl is the best Inf IMO, I have both Washington and Karl. |
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Post by Mountbatten on Jun 15, 2018 2:26:00 GMT
So I've been sitting on my treasure trove of medals waiting for the cavalry update but after seeing the changes I am slightly disappointed. So now I need some advice for choosing my next general. I have Bolivar and Kutuzov currently. I have my eye on either Davout or Murat, Washington or Bismarck, or Nelson because Falsen is on Leonidas level of uselessness. Which unit type do I need to bolster? Do I even need a cavalry general? For those that have many infantry general's ( stoic ) I'd like to hear your opinion on who you rely on the most. Karl is the best Inf IMO, I have both Washington and Karl. And do you think I should get another infantry general currently? |
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Post by stoic on Jun 15, 2018 3:57:37 GMT
Well, my suggestion is Massena. 1. He is quite strong (His Inf ability is amazing). 2. None of his 5 skills is a crap. 3. He has "Inf Master" skill. Without any doubt the best kind of skill in the game. 4. Your Bolivar will profit greatly from fighting near Massena. 5. He is cheap. 6. It is more simple to hire a couple of elite units of Infantry in campaigns than any other type of units. He is no worse than Karl, imo, because of "Assault". Only in one situation Karl is better than Massena - while fighting in forests against cavalry. In all other circumstances Massena is better than Karl or at least equal to him. Nelson? We don't know for sure yet whether or not we need an admiral at all. Davout? He has not any terrain bonus or Commander skill. Chances for the second attack are not that high to rely upon this skill, and as xerexes said, it is a double-edged sword anyway. Washington/Bismarck? Without any doubt they are great, but Massena is hardly weaker than any of them personally and better than both as a team player. Plus, Massena is a looot cheaper. Murat? Can't say anything bad about him  But some of his skills are dubious and the price is high. |
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Post by yuanzhong on Jun 15, 2018 4:32:56 GMT
Well, my suggestion is Massena. 1. He is quite strong (His Inf ability is amazing). 2. None of his 5 skills is a crap. 3. He has "Inf Master" skill. Without any doubt the best kind of skill in the game. 4. Your Bolivar will profit greatly from fighting near Massena. 5. He is cheap. 6. It is more simple to hire a couple of elite units of Infantry in campaigns than any other type of units. He is no worse than Karl, imo, because of "Assault". Only in one situation Karl is better than Massena - while fighting in forests against cavalry. In all other circumstances Massena is better than Karl or at least equal to him. Nelson? We don't know for sure yet whether or not we need an admiral at all. Davout? He has not any terrain bonus or Commander skill. Chances for the second attack are not that high to rely upon this skill, and as xerexes said, it is a double-edged sword anyway. Washington/Bismarck? Without any doubt they are great, but Massena is hardly weaker than any of them personally and better than both as a team player. Plus, Massena is a looot cheaper. Murat? Can't say anything bad about him But some of his skills are dubious and the price is high. Forest is the second most popular terrain in game, and almost cities have at least 1 grid of forest beside them, so i think jungle fighting un ew6 is even better than itself in wc4 and a very good skill also. Massena is good (or vert good) but his max title only a prince, i also got him and please with my decision but i prefer Karl. Ps. As change in new version with AI Cav spam, Karl will become better in future than Massena. Medal still be free now so IMO just farm and get the best to prepare for future update. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Jun 15, 2018 4:50:19 GMT
Well, my suggestion is Massena. 1. He is quite strong (His Inf ability is amazing). 2. None of his 5 skills is a crap. 3. He has "Inf Master" skill. Without any doubt the best kind of skill in the game. 4. Your Bolivar will profit greatly from fighting near Massena. 5. He is cheap. 6. It is more simple to hire a couple of elite units of Infantry in campaigns than any other type of units. He is no worse than Karl, imo, because of "Assault". Only in one situation Karl is better than Massena - while fighting in forests against cavalry. In all other circumstances Massena is better than Karl or at least equal to him. Nelson? We don't know for sure yet whether or not we need an admiral at all. Davout? He has not any terrain bonus or Commander skill. Chances for the second attack are not that high to rely upon this skill, and as xerexes said, it is a double-edged sword anyway. Washington/Bismarck? Without any doubt they are great, but Massena is hardly weaker than any of them personally and better than both as a team player. Plus, Massena is a looot cheaper. Murat? Can't say anything bad about him But some of his skills are dubious and the price is high. Forest is the second most popular terrain in game, and almost cities have at least 1 grid of forest beside them, so i think jungle fighting un ew6 is even better than itself in wc4 and a very good skill also. Massena is good (or vert good) but his max title only a prince, i also got him and please with my decision but i prefer Karl. Ps. As change in new version with AI Cav spam, Karl will become better in future than Massena. Medal still be free now so IMO just farm and get the best to prepare for future update. Guys I mean... why not both? And add Barclay in to make a trio, like what we did in EW5. 60 atk bonus can make any unit have a big punch. Karl+Massena+Barclay, and then add one or two good generals(maybe Lannes? I find him cheap and has super high output), they can form a killing machine. |
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Post by yuanzhong on Jun 15, 2018 4:59:39 GMT
Forest is the second most popular terrain in game, and almost cities have at least 1 grid of forest beside them, so i think jungle fighting un ew6 is even better than itself in wc4 and a very good skill also. Massena is good (or vert good) but his max title only a prince, i also got him and please with my decision but i prefer Karl. Ps. As change in new version with AI Cav spam, Karl will become better in future than Massena. Medal still be free now so IMO just farm and get the best to prepare for future update. Guys I mean... why not both? And add Barclay in to make a trio, like what we did in EW5. 60 atk bonus can make any unit have a big punch. Karl+Massena+Barclay, and then add one or two good generals(maybe Lannes? I find him cheap and has super high output), they can form a killing machine. I have both Massena and Karl with 2 other good individual gens Wellesley and Washington. I think 2 is enough, it's annoying to set up position to get max effect (+60 atk) with 3 |
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Post by stoic on Jun 15, 2018 5:10:01 GMT
Forest is the second most popular terrain in game, and almost cities have at least 1 grid of forest beside them, so i think jungle fighting un ew6 is even better than itself in wc4 and a very good skill also. Massena is good (or vert good) but his max title only a prince, i also got him and please with my decision but i prefer Karl. Ps. As change in new version with AI Cav spam, Karl will become better in future than Massena. Medal still be free now so IMO just farm and get the best to prepare for future update. Guys I mean... why not both? And add Barclay in to make a trio, like what we did in EW5. 60 atk bonus can make any unit have a big punch. Karl+Massena+Barclay, and then add one or two good generals(maybe Lannes? I find him cheap and has super high output), they can form a killing machine. I agree actually. I have Massena+Barclay+Suvorov+Lannes right now plus Alexandr+John for Art support. I would rather buy Karl next than any Cav general. Blucher and Murat can work great together, supporting each other. But one Murat, it seems to me, is not sufficient enough, and Dąbrowski is only a Duke (and thus can't substitute Blucher to the full extent). The main question for me right now is - how many generals are we allowed to use in future campaigns? If 6 - then I will upgrade my current team. If more - then I will hire Karl as well... |
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Post by Mountbatten on Jun 15, 2018 5:12:55 GMT
Massena sounds good to me as well. I'll think about it for a little bit and peruse my other options. I'm too lazy to grind Sardinia so I must be stingy Thanks for the help guys. |
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Post by stoic on Jun 15, 2018 5:33:55 GMT
Well, my suggestion is Massena. 1. He is quite strong (His Inf ability is amazing). 2. None of his 5 skills is a crap. 3. He has "Inf Master" skill. Without any doubt the best kind of skill in the game. 4. Your Bolivar will profit greatly from fighting near Massena. 5. He is cheap. 6. It is more simple to hire a couple of elite units of Infantry in campaigns than any other type of units. He is no worse than Karl, imo, because of "Assault". Only in one situation Karl is better than Massena - while fighting in forests against cavalry. In all other circumstances Massena is better than Karl or at least equal to him. Nelson? We don't know for sure yet whether or not we need an admiral at all. Davout? He has not any terrain bonus or Commander skill. Chances for the second attack are not that high to rely upon this skill, and as xerexes said, it is a double-edged sword anyway. Washington/Bismarck? Without any doubt they are great, but Massena is hardly weaker than any of them personally and better than both as a team player. Plus, Massena is a looot cheaper. Murat? Can't say anything bad about him But some of his skills are dubious and the price is high. Forest is the second most popular terrain in game, and almost cities have at least 1 grid of forest beside them, so i think jungle fighting un ew6 is even better than itself in wc4 and a very good skill also. Massena is good (or vert good) but his max title only a prince, i also got him and please with my decision but i prefer Karl. Ps. As change in new version with AI Cav spam, Karl will become better in future than Massena. Medal still be free now so IMO just farm and get the best to prepare for future update. The difference between Karl and Massena is only 5% of attack: Karl Max rank Emperor Battle Ability 84= 21% Infantry Ability 58= 14% with 2 point left over Total attack bonus 35% Massena Max rank Prince Battle Ability 60= 15% Infantry Ability 60= 15% Total attack bonus 30% It is actually less in practical terms than Inspiration alone can give. At best the difference between Karl and Massena would be 5 points of attack (Inspiration gives 6). Massena is hardly worse than Karl while fighting cavalry on any other ground than forests. Assault is too good to be ignored. + 20 attack points in any given situation: 1. Inf vs. Inf in plains 2. Inf vs. Cav in plains 3. Inf vs. Art in plains 4. Inf vs. Ships in plains 5. Inf vs. Inf in forests 6. Inf vs. Cav in forests 7. Inf vs. Art in forests 8. Inf vs. Ships in forests 9. Inf vs. Inf in mountains 10. Inf vs. Cav in mountains 11. Inf vs. Art in mountains 12. Inf vs. Ships in mountains 13. Inf vs. Inf in deserts 14. Inf vs. Cav in deserts 15. Inf vs. Art in deserts 16. Inf vs. Ships in deserts 17. Inf vs. Inf in cities 18. Inf vs. Cav in cities 19. Inf vs. Art in cities 20. Inf vs. Ships in cities Everywhere Massena will have at least a parity with Karl (or is better than him) while fightng against all types of units thanks to Assault. As I said Karl is better only in forests while fighting against Cavalry. It is too small an adavantage, imo, to prefer him over Massena. And Massena is far better while attacking units in cities. |
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Post by andrei on Jun 15, 2018 5:38:12 GMT
stoic Guys I mean... why not both? And add Barclay in to make a trio, like what we did in EW5. 60 atk bonus can make any unit have a big punch. Karl+Massena+Barclay, and then add one or two good generals(maybe Lannes? I find him cheap and has super high output), they can form a killing machine. I agree actually. I have Massena+Barclay+Suvorov+Lannes right now plus Alexandr+John for Art support. I would rather buy Karl next than any Cav general. Blucher and Murat can work great together, supporting each other. But one Murat, it seems to me, is not sufficient enough, and Dąbrowski is only a Duke (and thus can't substitute Blucher to the full extent). The main question for me right now is - how many generals are we allowed to use in future campaigns? If 6 - then I will upgrade my current team. If more - then I will hire Karl as well... Gens will be beasts for sure. But it is not EW5 (where simple units were absolutely incapable) to build the whole team around just one skill. Moreover it is simply boring. Imo  P.S: There is nothing better than this skill, true. But building tactics around one skill... Placing all the gens in the aura could be not that easy and when it is not possible I fill disappointed and I don't like when my gens' skills are not utilised I never used 3 commander gens in EW5 and pretty sure in EW6 such approach is even less crucial. |
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Post by stoic on Jun 15, 2018 6:01:19 GMT
I agree actually. I have Massena+Barclay+Suvorov+Lannes right now plus Alexandr+John for Art support. I would rather buy Karl next than any Cav general. Blucher and Murat can work great together, supporting each other. But one Murat, it seems to me, is not sufficient enough, and Dąbrowski is only a Duke (and thus can't substitute Blucher to the full extent). The main question for me right now is - how many generals are we allowed to use in future campaigns? If 6 - then I will upgrade my current team. If more - then I will hire Karl as well... Gens will be beasts for sure. But it is not EW5 (where simple units were absolutely incapable) to build the whole team around just one skill. Moreover it is simply boring. Imo P.S: There is nothing better than this skill, true. But building tactics around one skill... Placing all the gens in the aura could be not that easy and when it is not possible I fill disappointed and I don't like when my gens' are not utilised I never used 3 commander gens in EW5 and pretty sure in EW6 such approach is even less crucial. Well, if my team will complete one mission after another - I think I can live with this kind of boredom Placing all generals in the aura will be very difficult for sure. But it is not necessary! Because even fighting on the periphery of the aura will be beneficial enough for an Inf general in comparison to any Cav general fighting on his own. And since we can use HP restoring items, we can place in the center of the aure those generals who has more health at the moment. Experts, Masters etc. can be usefull for the rest of the team even without fighting. Don't forget that Cavalry has not Mobility (or analogues skills) anymore, and some Cav skills are, as we know, quite mysterious (Surprise attack) or useless (Maneuver). All Inf skills on the other hand are plain and simple. |
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Post by yuanzhong on Jun 15, 2018 6:05:37 GMT
Forest is the second most popular terrain in game, and almost cities have at least 1 grid of forest beside them, so i think jungle fighting un ew6 is even better than itself in wc4 and a very good skill also. Massena is good (or vert good) but his max title only a prince, i also got him and please with my decision but i prefer Karl. Ps. As change in new version with AI Cav spam, Karl will become better in future than Massena. Medal still be free now so IMO just farm and get the best to prepare for future update. The difference between Karl and Massena is only 5% of attack: Karl Max rank Emperor Battle Ability 84= 21% Infantry Ability 58= 14% with 2 point left over Total attack bonus 35% Massena Max rank Prince Battle Ability 60= 15% Infantry Ability 60= 15% Total attack bonus 30% It is actually less in practical terms than Inspiration alone can give. At best the difference between Karl and Massena would be 5 points of attack (Inspiration gives 6). Massena is hardly worse than Karl while fighting cavalry on any other ground than forests. Assault is too good to be ignored. + 20 attack points in any given situation: 1. Inf vs. Inf in plains 2. Inf vs. Cav in plains 3. Inf vs. Art in plains 4. Inf vs. Ships in plains 5. Inf vs. Inf in forests 6. Inf vs. Cav in forests 7. Inf vs. Art in forests 8. Inf vs. Ships in forests 9. Inf vs. Inf in mountains 10. Inf vs. Cav in mountains 11. Inf vs. Art in mountains 12. Inf vs. Ships in mountains 13. Inf vs. Inf in deserts 14. Inf vs. Cav in deserts 15. Inf vs. Art in deserts 16. Inf vs. Ships in deserts 17. Inf vs. Inf in cities 18. Inf vs. Cav in cities 19. Inf vs. Art in cities 20. Inf vs. Ships in cities Everywhere Massena will have at least a parity with Karl (or is better than him) while fightng against all types of units thanks to Assault. As I said Karl is better only in forests while fighting against Cavalry. It is too small an adavantage, imo, to prefer him over Massena. And Massena is far better while attacking units in cities. I agree with your calculation but 1 except, assault is flat individual buff, it isn't shown in unit's parameter and can't be boost by buff or ability (+20 damage, not attack). The Anti-Cav boost (can't remember the name of skill) is also flat buff. It's hard to calculate exactly who is better because of the way you use the generals. I give Karl Jungle fighting medal, Massena Commander boost medal and usually find the forest hexes for Karl in my game (it's easy, even more than how you find the mountain hex for your Alexander I ), so usually I see huge damage made by Karl, that's why in my own opinion I prefer Karl. I bough Karl as my 3rd Inf Gen before Massena as the 4th so I never use Massena alone, may be it's a habbit - alway get Karl as 1st pick for Inf |
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Post by stoic on Jun 15, 2018 6:18:20 GMT
The difference between Karl and Massena is only 5% of attack: Karl Max rank Emperor Battle Ability 84= 21% Infantry Ability 58= 14% with 2 point left over Total attack bonus 35% Massena Max rank Prince Battle Ability 60= 15% Infantry Ability 60= 15% Total attack bonus 30% It is actually less in practical terms than Inspiration alone can give. At best the difference between Karl and Massena would be 5 points of attack (Inspiration gives 6). Massena is hardly worse than Karl while fighting cavalry on any other ground than forests. Assault is too good to be ignored. + 20 attack points in any given situation: 1. Inf vs. Inf in plains 2. Inf vs. Cav in plains 3. Inf vs. Art in plains 4. Inf vs. Ships in plains 5. Inf vs. Inf in forests 6. Inf vs. Cav in forests 7. Inf vs. Art in forests 8. Inf vs. Ships in forests 9. Inf vs. Inf in mountains 10. Inf vs. Cav in mountains 11. Inf vs. Art in mountains 12. Inf vs. Ships in mountains 13. Inf vs. Inf in deserts 14. Inf vs. Cav in deserts 15. Inf vs. Art in deserts 16. Inf vs. Ships in deserts 17. Inf vs. Inf in cities 18. Inf vs. Cav in cities 19. Inf vs. Art in cities 20. Inf vs. Ships in cities Everywhere Massena will have at least a parity with Karl (or is better than him) while fightng against all types of units thanks to Assault. As I said Karl is better only in forests while fighting against Cavalry. It is too small an adavantage, imo, to prefer him over Massena. And Massena is far better while attacking units in cities. I agree with your calculation but 1 except, assault is flat individual buff, it isn't shown in unit's parameter and can't be boost by buff or ability (+20 damage, not attack). The Anti-Cav boost (can't remember the name of skill) is also flat buff. It's hard to calculate exactly who is better because of the way you use the generals. I give Karl Jungle fighting medal, Massena Commander boost medal and usually find the forest hexes for Karl in my game (it's easy, even more than how you find the mountain hex for your Alexander I ), so usually I see huge damage made by Karl, that's why in my own opinion I prefer Karl. I bough Karl as my 3rd Inf Gen before Massena as the 4th so I never use Massena alone, may be it's a habbit - alway get Karl as 1st pick for Inf I agree that the way how we use our generals is of great importance. My best general is actually Suvorov and not Massena , but without Massena my Suvorov and your Karl would be less effective, I presume. But after all Massena's skills will be upgraded - he will be as good as Karl in your team. My guess is that your Massena has only Inf Master upgrades right now |
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Post by yuanzhong on Jun 15, 2018 6:26:22 GMT
I agree with your calculation but 1 except, assault is flat individual buff, it isn't shown in unit's parameter and can't be boost by buff or ability (+20 damage, not attack). The Anti-Cav boost (can't remember the name of skill) is also flat buff. It's hard to calculate exactly who is better because of the way you use the generals. I give Karl Jungle fighting medal, Massena Commander boost medal and usually find the forest hexes for Karl in my game (it's easy, even more than how you find the mountain hex for your Alexander I ), so usually I see huge damage made by Karl, that's why in my own opinion I prefer Karl. I bough Karl as my 3rd Inf Gen before Massena as the 4th so I never use Massena alone, may be it's a habbit - alway get Karl as 1st pick for Inf I agree that the way how we use our generals is of great importance. My best general is actually Suvorov and not Massena , but without Massena my Suvorov and your Karl would be less effective, I presume. But after all Massena's skills will be upgraded - he will be as good as Karl in your team. My guess is that your Massena has only Inf Master upgrades right now All of my gens (Including 3 IAP gens) just max aura skill and some of terrain buff. It's a pain to upgrade all (9) gens to max. |
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) I'd like to hear your opinion on who you rely on the most.
But some of his skills are dubious and the price is high. 
