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Post by itzechox on Jul 27, 2019 15:07:52 GMT
They both seem good actually but here are some differences. Cleopatra is a lot cheaper but when we consider her rank (Legatus) she loses her price advantage actually. Legatus to General costs 245 medals if im not mistaken with that upgrade she becomes more expensive. When we consider the talents Cleo's talent might seem better but dont forget that our Commander already has the Naval Aura and we know that auras doesnt stack. If we check the skills we see that Agrippa has both crit skills for navy/infantry and Cleo has both Commander skills for navy/archery. Both seem really good but Agrippa's talent is also crit which gives him the edge in this situation.Both are good to use flags cause of double skills. I think we need to consider that we need a third infantry or a third archery general in that buy situation. My vote goes for Agrippa.
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Post by stoic on Jul 27, 2019 15:51:59 GMT
I abstain from voting until it is proven that we really need an Admiral. They both are quite interesting candidates and both can be useful on land, but if it will be possible to complete Naval battles (if there are any) without them, I would prefer a full-time land general instead.
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Post by andrei on Jul 27, 2019 16:11:12 GMT
itzechox, come on, it's Cleopatra! Agrippa was also very very interesting and important (for Octavian) person. But in pop-culture, You know.. not a question. Only Cleo. And Agrippa as the last slot just to give credits 
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Post by itzechox on Jul 27, 2019 16:52:08 GMT
If she was EW5 Cleo , the one had rumour , i would take her but not sure about in this game. She's cool and useful but unless we are going for third maybe fourth archery general I will take the Agrippa.Even though I voted for him i dont consider buying him. I will upgrade my commander and Antony to marshall first for laurel crown and golden spear.Having 6 general is pretty much enough atm.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 27, 2019 18:19:11 GMT
I’d probably say that since there no admirals only naval hybrids in this game, none of us are going to have a panic attack sacrificing our third slot general in a specific category for a naval hybrid. But we really don’t need 9 generals, at least not yet
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Post by Lucius Vorenus on Jul 28, 2019 2:37:33 GMT
Commander aura does not cancel Cleopatra’s aura, just as it does not cancel the IAP general auras. The commander cannot be everywhere at once and 2 grids does not cover the whole battle.
Correct my math if I am wrong, but if we take all their skills to 4 and give Cleo banner of sun and Agrippa banner of thunder then Agrippa gets a total of 37.5% increased damage at sea, and Cleo gets 40%. On land Agrippa gets 12.5% increased damage, Cleo gets 25%.
Commander skills are better than crit skills. Point for point they are literally double value, and don't require high morale. So no, Agrippa does not have the edge here.
Cleo will do more damage, boost damage of allies, will take less damage at sea because of helmsman, and has more item flexibility due to not requiring high morale items for her skills to work.
Will she cost more medals, yes. But that is because she is better.
I plan on getting both because we have far more slots for generals than we can actually deploy, so why not.
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Jul 28, 2019 3:12:01 GMT
Commander aura does not cancel Cleopatra’s aura, just as it does not cancel the IAP general auras. The commander cannot be everywhere at once and 2 grids does not cover the whole battle. Correct my math if I am wrong, but if we take all their skills to 4 and give Cleo banner of sun and Agrippa banner of thunder then Agrippa gets a total of 37.5% increased damage at sea, and Cleo gets 40%. On land Agrippa gets 12.5% increased damage, Cleo gets 25%. Commander skills are better than crit skills. Point for point they are literally double value, and don't require high morale. So no, Agrippa does not have the edge here. Cleo will do more damage, boost damage of allies, will take less damage at sea because of helmsman, and has more item flexibility due to not requiring high morale items for her skills to work. Will she cost more medals, yes. But that is because she is better. I plan on getting both because we have far more slots for generals than we can actually deploy, so why not. Well said. No real point in getting agrippa yet anyway as we don’t have access to the banner of thunder yet |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 0:00:39 GMT
I abstain from voting until it is proven that we really need an Admiral. They both are quite interesting candidates and both can be useful on land, but if it will be possible to complete Naval battles (if there are any) without them, I would prefer a full-time land general instead. It's time for you to vote, now that Sicilian decisive battles exist |
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Post by stoic on Nov 8, 2021 2:16:03 GMT
I abstain from voting until it is proven that we really need an Admiral. They both are quite interesting candidates and both can be useful on land, but if it will be possible to complete Naval battles (if there are any) without them, I would prefer a full-time land general instead. It's time for you to vote, now that Sicilian decisive battles exist Yeah, there was a shift in the balance of powers indeed. I vote for Cleo therefore. I like her skills more. Agrippa is another general heavily dependent on high moral. There are plenty already. We simply don't have enough items for all of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 2:48:41 GMT
It's time for you to vote, now that Sicilian decisive battles exist Yeah, there was a shift in the balance of powers indeed. I vote for Cleo therefore. I like her skills more. Agrippa is another general heavily dependent on high moral. There are plenty already. We simply don't have enough items for all of them. That's actually a point of contention between cleo and agrippa, is group performance vs Individual performance. For decisive battles, it would be assumed that Agrippa gets the crown or the other other item that gives high morale all the time for max individual performance. But does that outweigh the naval aura provided by Cleopatra? Is the individual performance also high enough that Agrippa completely dunks on Cleopatra when it comes to naval performance? Of course, i already have an answer for them as i already have my conclusions, but it's something to argue about. That, and how i don't think there are any campaigns where naval generals are needed, and only decisive battles are where their use is necessary. |
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Post by stoic on Nov 8, 2021 4:03:46 GMT
Yeah, there was a shift in the balance of powers indeed. I vote for Cleo therefore. I like her skills more. Agrippa is another general heavily dependent on high moral. There are plenty already. We simply don't have enough items for all of them. That's actually a point of contention between cleo and agrippa, is group performance vs Individual performance. For decisive battles, it would be assumed that Agrippa gets the crown or the other other item that gives high morale all the time for max individual performance. But does that outweigh the naval aura provided by Cleopatra? Is the individual performance also high enough that Agrippa completely dunks on Cleopatra when it comes to naval performance? Of course, i already have an answer for them as i already have my conclusions, but it's something to argue about. That, and how i don't think there are any campaigns where naval generals are needed, and only decisive battles are where their use is necessary. I think a general with aura is better than a general without it even in AI-controlled battles. In land battles Cleopatra is still better, because none of her abilities depends on moral, and without high moral Agrippa has only one Infantry skill. If we can boost his moral in naval battles by giving him laurel crown, we won't do the same on land. Besides, Cleo is cheaper. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 4:33:31 GMT
That's actually a point of contention between cleo and agrippa, is group performance vs Individual performance. For decisive battles, it would be assumed that Agrippa gets the crown or the other other item that gives high morale all the time for max individual performance. But does that outweigh the naval aura provided by Cleopatra? Is the individual performance also high enough that Agrippa completely dunks on Cleopatra when it comes to naval performance? Of course, i already have an answer for them as i already have my conclusions, but it's something to argue about. That, and how i don't think there are any campaigns where naval generals are needed, and only decisive battles are where their use is necessary. I think a general with aura is better than a general without it even in AI-controlled battles. In land battles Cleopatra is still better, because none of her abilities depends on moral, and without high moral Agrippa has only one Infantry skill. If we can boost his moral in naval battles by giving him laurel crown, we won't do the same on land. Besides, Cleo is cheaper. But isn't Agrippa overall cheaper, considering rank cost? And when it comes to moral, isn't the reason we consider Huo good is due to his high crit chance? I have my answers to these questions, but i want to see if i miss something, so enlighten me  |
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Post by stoic on Nov 8, 2021 4:41:32 GMT
I think a general with aura is better than a general without it even in AI-controlled battles. In land battles Cleopatra is still better, because none of her abilities depends on moral, and without high moral Agrippa has only one Infantry skill. If we can boost his moral in naval battles by giving him laurel crown, we won't do the same on land. Besides, Cleo is cheaper. But isn't Agrippa overall cheaper, considering rank cost? And when it comes to moral, isn't the reason we consider Huo good is due to his high crit chance? I have my answers to these questions, but i want to see if i miss something, so enlighten me Truth be told I have upgraded only a rank of my Commander. The rest are as they are. And you definitely don't need rank upgrades for DB. Huo in comparison to Agrippa has 4 skills, while Agrippa has 2+2. So, Huo has a critical attack plus 3 other skills, and Agrippa has a critical attack and plus one skill on land and one skill in naval battles. And again we have to think how to provide Agrippa with unconditionally high moral. There's always a "space left behind". Huo, Mithridates or Belisarius are quite good at see, if their moral is high. If we take a laurel crown from someone else to give it to Agrippa - we weaken this "someone" by 12 points of attack and counterattack. It doesn't happen in case we purchased Cleo. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 5:00:18 GMT
But isn't Agrippa overall cheaper, considering rank cost? And when it comes to moral, isn't the reason we consider Huo good is due to his high crit chance? I have my answers to these questions, but i want to see if i miss something, so enlighten me Truth be told I have upgraded only a rank of my Commander. The rest are as they are. And you definitely don't need rank upgrades for DB. Huo in comparison to Agrippa has 4 skills, while Agrippa has 2+2. So, Huo has a critical attack plus 3 other skills, and Agrippa has a critical attack and plus one skill on land and one skill in naval battles. And again we have to think how to provide Agrippa with unconditionally high moral. There's always a "space left behind". Huo, Mithridates or Belisarius are quite good at see, if their moral is high. If we take a laurel crown from someone else to give it to Agrippa - we weaken this "someone" by 12 points of attack and counterattack. It doesn't happen in case we purchased Cleo. But in the context of the Sicilian Decisive battles, don't we want Agrippa to be high morale at all times so he can carry the group? |
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Post by NotRandom on Nov 8, 2021 5:19:32 GMT
But isn't Agrippa overall cheaper, considering rank cost? And when it comes to moral, isn't the reason we consider Huo good is due to his high crit chance? I have my answers to these questions, but i want to see if i miss something, so enlighten me Truth be told I have upgraded only a rank of my Commander. The rest are as they are. And you definitely don't need rank upgrades for DB. Huo in comparison to Agrippa has 4 skills, while Agrippa has 2+2. So, Huo has a critical attack plus 3 other skills, and Agrippa has a critical attack and plus one skill on land and one skill in naval battles. And again we have to think how to provide Agrippa with unconditionally high moral. There's always a "space left behind". Huo, Mithridates or Belisarius are quite good at see, if their moral is high. If we take a laurel crown from someone else to give it to Agrippa - we weaken this "someone" by 12 points of attack and counterattack. It doesn't happen in case we purchased Cleo. Well switching items for different missions I believe is a valid strategy. During missions with heavy naval focus, giving a morale boosting item to Agrippa imo is a top priority. And with the introduction of the dragon tripod we can still give our second general a morale boosting item. |
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