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Post by NotRandom on Nov 8, 2021 5:28:59 GMT
That's actually a point of contention between cleo and agrippa, is group performance vs Individual performance. For decisive battles, it would be assumed that Agrippa gets the crown or the other other item that gives high morale all the time for max individual performance. But does that outweigh the naval aura provided by Cleopatra? Is the individual performance also high enough that Agrippa completely dunks on Cleopatra when it comes to naval performance? Of course, i already have an answer for them as i already have my conclusions, but it's something to argue about. That, and how i don't think there are any campaigns where naval generals are needed, and only decisive battles are where their use is necessary. I think a general with aura is better than a general without it even in AI-controlled battles. In land battles Cleopatra is still better, because none of her abilities depends on moral, and without high moral Agrippa has only one Infantry skill. If we can boost his moral in naval battles by giving him laurel crown, we won't do the same on land. Besides, Cleo is cheaper. Well tbh with the arrival of Aetius in a few days there really isn't a reason to get Cleo anymore. Yes she is quite cheap but she's legatus instead of general. Aetius is free though, albeit hard to get for newer players (But then again, you don't need a dedicated naval until Sicily). And as for archers, Cleo isn't really the best. You have Mithridates, Octavian, and Drusus for your top three (and archer commander, if you decided to go that route). And hell, even Li is cheaper than Cleo on archer when general rank cost is counted. Cleo's main attraction, aura, already isn't as good with africanus uniform. But now we have Aetius who can boost the aura and (imo) a better land general. |
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Post by stoic on Nov 8, 2021 9:08:07 GMT
I think a general with aura is better than a general without it even in AI-controlled battles. In land battles Cleopatra is still better, because none of her abilities depends on moral, and without high moral Agrippa has only one Infantry skill. If we can boost his moral in naval battles by giving him laurel crown, we won't do the same on land. Besides, Cleo is cheaper. Well tbh with the arrival of Aetius in a few days there really isn't a reason to get Cleo anymore. Yes she is quite cheap but she's legatus instead of general. Aetius is free though, albeit hard to get for newer players (But then again, you don't need a dedicated naval until Sicily). And as for archers, Cleo isn't really the best. You have Mithridates, Octavian, and Drusus for your top three (and archer commander, if you decided to go that route). And hell, even Li is cheaper than Cleo on archer when general rank cost is counted. Cleo's main attraction, aura, already isn't as good with africanus uniform. But now we have Aetius who can boost the aura and (imo) a better land general.ย Since effects of aura and uniform stack up, I wouldn't underestimate it's influence. An additional attack boost for all friendly ships nearby won't hurt for sure. The difference between legatus and general, on the other hand, is 4 points of attack. To give a laurel crown or tripod to someone means to take away a laurel crown or tripod from someone. Every general with a consistent high moral is very good at see battles. I see that we gain more as a team by using Cleo than Agrippa. And most likely we won't deploy neither of them as a land general. Of course, if a player can get Aetius BEFORE naval DB, - then the case is closed: we don't need neither Cleo nor Agrippa. If not - I think Cleo is a better option than Agrippa. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 9:33:38 GMT
Well tbh with the arrival of Aetius in a few days there really isn't a reason to get Cleo anymore. Yes she is quite cheap but she's legatus instead of general. Aetius is free though, albeit hard to get for newer players (But then again, you don't need a dedicated naval until Sicily). And as for archers, Cleo isn't really the best. You have Mithridates, Octavian, and Drusus for your top three (and archer commander, if you decided to go that route). And hell, even Li is cheaper than Cleo on archer when general rank cost is counted. Cleo's main attraction, aura, already isn't as good with africanus uniform. But now we have Aetius who can boost the aura and (imo) a better land general. Since effects of aura and uniform stack up, I wouldn't underestimate it's influence. An additional attack boost for all friendly ships nearby won't hurt for sure. The difference between legatus and general, on the other hand, is 4 points of attack. To give a laurel crown or tripod to someone means to take away a laurel crown or tripod from someone. Every general with a consistent high moral is very good at see battles. I see that we gain more as a team by using Cleo than Agrippa. And most likely we won't deploy neither of them as a land general. Of course, if a player can get Aetius BEFORE naval DB, - then the case is closed: we don't need neither Cleo nor Agrippa. If not - I think Cleo is a better option than Agrippa. Pretty sure we need more naval generals to make sicilian battles manageable, but then i'm just a scrub. Then again, you can just buy the cheap naval generals and give them the naval uniform, and resell and buy a new one and give him the naval uniform. So yeah, true. Aetius will definitely make Sicilian decisive battles much easier. Not sure about your statement about the player getting Aetius after the Sicilian decisive battles, i finished the campaign before completing the decisive battles, but then again the challenge to get to Aetius may be even harder, so we won't know until we get him. |
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Post by stoic on Nov 8, 2021 9:40:26 GMT
Since effects of aura and uniform stack up, I wouldn't underestimate it's influence. An additional attack boost for all friendly ships nearby won't hurt for sure. The difference between legatus and general, on the other hand, is 4 points of attack. To give a laurel crown or tripod to someone means to take away a laurel crown or tripod from someone. Every general with a consistent high moral is very good at see battles. I see that we gain more as a team by using Cleo than Agrippa. And most likely we won't deploy neither of them as a land general. Of course, if a player can get Aetius BEFORE naval DB, - then the case is closed: we don't need neither Cleo nor Agrippa. If not - I think Cleo is a better option than Agrippa. Pretty sure we need more naval generals to make sicilian battles manageable, but then i'm just a scrub. Then again, you can just buy the cheap naval generals and give them the naval uniform, and resell and buy a new one and give him the naval uniform. So yeah, true. Aetius will definitely make Sicilian decisive battles much easier. Not sure about your statement about the player getting Aetius after the Sicilian decisive battles, i finished the campaign before completing the decisive battles, but then again the challenge to get to Aetius may be even harder, so we won't know until we get him. This is exactly what I meant. We simply don't know how difficult is it to get Aetius. So, I wouldn't exclude that someone will complete Sicilian DB before he could get "free" Aetius. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 9:47:13 GMT
stoic, yeah. Doesn't help that not all Sicilian Decisive battles are naval based, as i think all except one i think requires a landing and land battles, so i find it harder to justify Agrippa over Cleopatra, when we won't really buy them for land battles. Except Cleopatra is a decent archer gen and she's been a great archer carry for me early to end game, and i've had a lot of infantry gens, so i'm not sure how i can defend Agrippa more. Atleast we can agree that Aetius is hot right  ?
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Post by stoic on Nov 8, 2021 9:52:18 GMT
stoic, yeah. Doesn't help that not all Sicilian Decisive battles are naval based, as i think all except one i think requires a landing and land battles, so i find it harder to justify Agrippa over Cleopatra, when we won't really buy them for land battles. Except Cleopatra is a decent archer gen and she's been a great archer carry for me early to end game, and i've had a lot of infantry gens, so i'm not sure how i can defend Agrippa more. Atleast we can agree that Aetius is hot right ? Quite so  but again as they say "stitch in time saves nine" If you need to conquer seven hells to get him, his value is somewhat diminished, imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2021 10:10:43 GMT
stoic , yeah. Doesn't help that not all Sicilian Decisive battles are naval based, as i think all except one i think requires a landing and land battles, so i find it harder to justify Agrippa over Cleopatra, when we won't really buy them for land battles. Except Cleopatra is a decent archer gen and she's been a great archer carry for me early to end game, and i've had a lot of infantry gens, so i'm not sure how i can defend Agrippa more. Atleast we can agree that Aetius is hot right ? Quite so but again as they say "stitch in time saves nine" If you need to conquer seven hells to get him, his value is somewhat diminished, imo. That's true. This sounds like a meme at this point, but maybe if he had march... |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Nov 8, 2021 18:51:49 GMT
Agrippa is better than Cleo, yes, because of the toughness of infantry in water. However, I think Aetius blows them both out of the water. Or maybe not. His skills are worse than Agrippa...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2021 21:27:46 GMT
Cleo, the mistress of Caesar, later lover of Antony. She has both archer and naval commander skills.
then Agrippa.
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Post by Erich on Nov 23, 2021 7:14:12 GMT
With the Banner of Neptune, Agrippa and Cleo are a bit better than Aetius. The banner can increase both navy skills of all 3 generals, but with Navy commander, the bannerโs more effective used by Agrippa and Cleo.
Nevertheless, I think Agrippa and Cleo are better at sea, Aetius better on land, Agrippa better when fighting alone, Cleo more effective leading a horde.
And the best team is Agrippa with Banner of Neptune + Cleo with the banner increase commander skills.
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?
but again as they say "stitch in time saves nine" 
