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Post by stoic on Aug 11, 2019 21:13:50 GMT
Some of them were, but only minority. Even after Cannae the majority of Italics remained loyal and they always supplied Rome with troops. Usually Italics had bilateral agreements with Rome, so they united against Rome only twice - before Punic wars and in the Civil war. Hannibal was moving through Italy how long.. Like 7 years moving here and there? It's not possible on hostile territories. It was only possible because he received supplies from former Roman "allies". That's what I meant saying country wasn't unified. Italics wanted that citizenship and mostly was given it much much later. Actually 14 or 15 years  But as I said only a minority of Italics deflected to Hannibal and it was only after several defeats of Rome - Trebia, Trazimen, Cannae... When Hannibal invaded Italy no-one planned to deflect (only some Gallic tribes recently subjugated by Rome), therefore Hannibal's expedition was a really crazy enterprise. The guy really believed in his military genius  |
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Post by stoic on Aug 11, 2019 21:32:37 GMT
Polybius on Rome's resources before the Second Punic war: "But, that it may appear from actual facts what a great power it was that Hannibal ventured to attack, and how mighty was that empire boldly confronting which he came so near his purpose as to bring great disasters on Rome, 2 I must state what were their resources and the actual number of their forces at this time. 3 Each of the Consuls was in p301 command of four legions of Roman citizens, each consisting of five thousand two hundred foot and three hundred horse. 4 The allied forces in each Consular army numbered thirty thousand foot and two thousand horse. 5 The cavalry of the Sabines and Etruscans, who had come to the temporary assistance of Rome, were four thousand strong, their infantry above fifty thousand. 6 The Romans massed these forces and posted them on the frontier of Etruria under the command of a Praetor. 7 The levy of the Umbrians and Sarsinates inhabiting the Apennines amounted to about twenty thousand, and with these were twenty thousand Veneti and Cenomani. 8 These they stationed on the frontier of Gaul, to invade the territory of the Boii and divert them back from their expedition. 9 These were the armies protecting the Roman territory. In Rome itself there was a reserve force, ready for any war-contingency, consisting of twenty thousand foot and fifteen hundred horse, all Roman citizens, and thirty thousand foot and two thousand horse furnished by the allies. 10 The lists of men able to bear arms that had been returned were as follows. Latins eighty thousand foot and five thousand horse, Samnites seventy thousand foot and seven thousand horse, 11 Iapygians and Messapians fifty thousand foot and sixteen thousand horse in all, 12 Lucanians thirty thousand foot and three thousand horse, Marsi, Marrucini, Frentani, and Vestini twenty thousand foot and four thousand horse. 13 In Sicily and Tarentum were two reserve legions, each consisting of about four thousand p303 two hundred foot and two hundred horse. 14 Of Romans and Campanians there were on the roll two hundred and fifty thousand footº and twenty-three thousand horse; 15 16 so that the total number of Romans and allies able to bear arms was more than seven hundred thousand foot and seventy thousand horse, 17 while Hannibal invaded Italy with an army of less than twenty thousand men. On this matter I shall be able to give my readers more explicit information in the course of this work". |
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Post by Friedrich “Fried Rice” Paulus on Aug 11, 2019 22:22:30 GMT
Carthage is one if the best farming methods in the game 1500 gold and only ~ 15 turns to win
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Post by andrei on Aug 12, 2019 3:18:36 GMT
Polybius on Rome's resources before the Second Punic war: "But, that it may appear from actual facts what a great power it was that Hannibal ventured to attack, and how mighty was that empire boldly confronting which he came so near his purpose as to bring great disasters on Rome, 2 I must state what were their resources and the actual number of their forces at this time. 3 Each of the Consuls was in p301 command of four legions of Roman citizens, each consisting of five thousand two hundred foot and three hundred horse. 4 The allied forces in each Consular army numbered thirty thousand foot and two thousand horse. 5 The cavalry of the Sabines and Etruscans, who had come to the temporary assistance of Rome, were four thousand strong, their infantry above fifty thousand. 6 The Romans massed these forces and posted them on the frontier of Etruria under the command of a Praetor. 7 The levy of the Umbrians and Sarsinates inhabiting the Apennines amounted to about twenty thousand, and with these were twenty thousand Veneti and Cenomani. 8 These they stationed on the frontier of Gaul, to invade the territory of the Boii and divert them back from their expedition. 9 These were the armies protecting the Roman territory. In Rome itself there was a reserve force, ready for any war-contingency, consisting of twenty thousand foot and fifteen hundred horse, all Roman citizens, and thirty thousand foot and two thousand horse furnished by the allies. 10 The lists of men able to bear arms that had been returned were as follows. Latins eighty thousand foot and five thousand horse, Samnites seventy thousand foot and seven thousand horse, 11 Iapygians and Messapians fifty thousand foot and sixteen thousand horse in all, 12 Lucanians thirty thousand foot and three thousand horse, Marsi, Marrucini, Frentani, and Vestini twenty thousand foot and four thousand horse. 13 In Sicily and Tarentum were two reserve legions, each consisting of about four thousand p303 two hundred foot and two hundred horse. 14 Of Romans and Campanians there were on the roll two hundred and fifty thousand footº and twenty-three thousand horse; 15 16 so that the total number of Romans and allies able to bear arms was more than seven hundred thousand foot and seventy thousand horse, 17 while Hannibal invaded Italy with an army of less than twenty thousand men. On this matter I shall be able to give my readers more explicit information in the course of this work"., we are all educated men here These figures are just theory. Having most of Your territory (not Yours actually, but let's call it allies territory) controlled by the enemy it is quite difficult to conscript those "foot". Moreover, don't forget that these conscripts need military equipment and its production was veeeeeery limited. Hannibal wasn't an idiot, he understood it very good. These reasons are still more or less valid for modern warfare, not to mention Ancient times. It worked same way all times. According to Your approach (relying on math only) William the Conqueror had no chance to conquer England, but this question was solved after a single battle. Technically it took a lot of time but generally a single battle. |
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Post by stoic on Aug 12, 2019 4:08:37 GMT
Polybius on Rome's resources before the Second Punic war: "But, that it may appear from actual facts what a great power it was that Hannibal ventured to attack, and how mighty was that empire boldly confronting which he came so near his purpose as to bring great disasters on Rome, 2 I must state what were their resources and the actual number of their forces at this time. 3 Each of the Consuls was in p301 command of four legions of Roman citizens, each consisting of five thousand two hundred foot and three hundred horse. 4 The allied forces in each Consular army numbered thirty thousand foot and two thousand horse. 5 The cavalry of the Sabines and Etruscans, who had come to the temporary assistance of Rome, were four thousand strong, their infantry above fifty thousand. 6 The Romans massed these forces and posted them on the frontier of Etruria under the command of a Praetor. 7 The levy of the Umbrians and Sarsinates inhabiting the Apennines amounted to about twenty thousand, and with these were twenty thousand Veneti and Cenomani. 8 These they stationed on the frontier of Gaul, to invade the territory of the Boii and divert them back from their expedition. 9 These were the armies protecting the Roman territory. In Rome itself there was a reserve force, ready for any war-contingency, consisting of twenty thousand foot and fifteen hundred horse, all Roman citizens, and thirty thousand foot and two thousand horse furnished by the allies. 10 The lists of men able to bear arms that had been returned were as follows. Latins eighty thousand foot and five thousand horse, Samnites seventy thousand foot and seven thousand horse, 11 Iapygians and Messapians fifty thousand foot and sixteen thousand horse in all, 12 Lucanians thirty thousand foot and three thousand horse, Marsi, Marrucini, Frentani, and Vestini twenty thousand foot and four thousand horse. 13 In Sicily and Tarentum were two reserve legions, each consisting of about four thousand p303 two hundred foot and two hundred horse. 14 Of Romans and Campanians there were on the roll two hundred and fifty thousand footº and twenty-three thousand horse; 15 16 so that the total number of Romans and allies able to bear arms was more than seven hundred thousand foot and seventy thousand horse, 17 while Hannibal invaded Italy with an army of less than twenty thousand men. On this matter I shall be able to give my readers more explicit information in the course of this work"., we are all educated men here These figures are just theory. Having most of Your territory (not Yours actually, but let's call it allies territory) controlled by the enemy it is quite difficult to conscript those "foot". Moreover, don't forget that these conscripts need military equipment and its production was veeeeeery limited. Hannibal wasn't an idiot, he understood it very good. These reasons are still more or less valid for modern warfare, not to mention Ancient times. It worked same way all times. According to Your approach (relying on math only) William the Conqueror had no chance to conquer England, but this question was solved after a single battle. Technically it took a lot of time but generally a single battle. My point was that it was BEFORE Hannibal crossed the Alpes and entered into Italy. No one could even imagine that this relatively young man with previously limited military experience will beat Romans time and again. No one in Italy assumed that he will do it. Deflection was a result of those losses not a cause. Hannibal was hugely outnumbered before he even decided to cross the Alpes (where he had lost a third of his army). Therefore it was a really crazy undertaking. Simply because he presumed that he could beat Romans many times despite the odds. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 4:15:17 GMT
Rome pretty much never wanted to surrender, and they probably would have rather face total annihilation than surrender to Hannibal. Same thing happened when king Pyrrhus went on a campaign against them. That's pretty much what saved them, and the fact they were a republic that is flexible during war(by picking 2 consuls so leadership wasn't too divided and decision making was quick ), And a well trained military. Also the fact that Scipio Africanus was pretty much his rival in terms of strategic and tactical thinking. And Fabius' strategy, which although was hated, was effective in hurting Hannibal, but made the other nations see Rome as becoming weak. Although Italy wasn't united, it still had the collective unity, so it was pretty hard to sow dissent, and only those allies outside of Italy were willing to send help, and even they weren't that committed to helping. Hannibal may have succeeded if Carthage actually sent help to him, and their hesitation caused them the war.
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Post by stoic on Aug 12, 2019 4:22:06 GMT
Rome pretty much never wanted to surrender, and they probably would have rather face total annihilation than surrender to Hannibal. Same thing happened when king Pyrrhus went on a campaign against them. That's pretty much what saved them, and the fact they were a republic that is flexible during war(by picking 2 consuls so leadership wasn't too divided and decision making was quick ), And a well trained military. Also the fact that Scipio Africanus was pretty much his rival in terms of strategic and tactical thinking. And Fabius' strategy, which although was hated, was effective in hurting Hannibal, but made the other nations see Rome as becoming weak. Although Italy wasn't united, it still had the collective unity, so it was pretty hard to sow dissent, and only those allies outside of Italy were willing to send help, and even they weren't that committed to helping. Hannibal may have succeeded if Carthage actually sent help to him, and their hesitation caused them the war. The question is whether they really wanted it in Carthage in the first place. In Carthage there was an influential appeasement party and their support to Hannibal and his brothers was half-hearted at best. |
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Post by War Master on Aug 12, 2019 5:01:50 GMT
I need to try this
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 7:05:57 GMT
Rome pretty much never wanted to surrender, and they probably would have rather face total annihilation than surrender to Hannibal. Same thing happened when king Pyrrhus went on a campaign against them. That's pretty much what saved them, and the fact they were a republic that is flexible during war(by picking 2 consuls so leadership wasn't too divided and decision making was quick ), And a well trained military. Also the fact that Scipio Africanus was pretty much his rival in terms of strategic and tactical thinking. And Fabius' strategy, which although was hated, was effective in hurting Hannibal, but made the other nations see Rome as becoming weak. Although Italy wasn't united, it still had the collective unity, so it was pretty hard to sow dissent, and only those allies outside of Italy were willing to send help, and even they weren't that committed to helping. Hannibal may have succeeded if Carthage actually sent help to him, and their hesitation caused them the war. The question is whether they really wanted it in Carthage in the first place. In Carthage there was an influential appeasement party and their support to Hannibal and his brothers was half-hearted at best. And that's why they lost . Being an economic power has its downsides when it comes to war. Like actually committing to a war they could have won. They did engage against the Romans but they lost because they didn't want to commit, and they didn't have Hannibal's leadership. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 7:11:03 GMT
Go ahead . Just have to familiarize with the pattern. Also, one thing I forgot to mention is to not item swap as much as possible. For some reason, the enemy will spawn a unit if you decide to item swap. For a more consistent turn 9 one, don't bribe the tribe above massalia,and send hasdrubal and Hannibal there instead. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Aug 12, 2019 7:11:35 GMT
Imagine if ET gave Carthage Corsica and Sardinia to work with. Plus, having a ready Carthaginian army waiting in Sicily. Victory in 5 turns? That seems possible. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 8:06:43 GMT
Imagine if ET gave Carthage Corsica and Sardinia to work with. Plus, having a ready Carthaginian army waiting in Sicily. Victory in 5 turns? That seems possible. Definitely. The problem will be how to deal with the Aetolian league and Lusitani |
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Post by stoic on Aug 12, 2019 8:40:04 GMT
Territories are fine, but without units they are of little help. ET can change many things simply by adding more troops and generals. As in an example I remember from my childhood: if you have 8 oranges and your friend has 9 - it is OK. But if you have 1 and he has 2 - then it is very likely that you will be angry, though he still has only one more than you |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 9:52:41 GMT
Territories are fine, but without units they are of little help. ET can change many things simply by adding more troops and generals. As in an example I remember from my childhood: if you have 8 oranges and your friend has 9 - it is OK. But if you have 1 and he has 2 - then it is very likely that you will be angry, though he still has only one more than you You can always take it away from him, through guile or by force, by hook or by crook |
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Post by stoic on Aug 12, 2019 11:24:47 GMT
Territories are fine, but without units they are of little help. ET can change many things simply by adding more troops and generals. As in an example I remember from my childhood: if you have 8 oranges and your friend has 9 - it is OK. But if you have 1 and he has 2 - then it is very likely that you will be angry, though he still has only one more than you You can always take it away from him, through guile or by force, by hook or by crook Yeah, but it is a bad lesson for a future adult life |
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But as I said only a minority of Italics deflected to Hannibal and it was only after several defeats of Rome - Trebia, Trazimen, Cannae... When Hannibal invaded Italy no-one planned to deflect (only some Gallic tribes recently subjugated by Rome), therefore Hannibal's expedition was a really crazy enterprise. The guy really believed in his military genius 
