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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Jun 5, 2020 9:40:51 GMT
Not really, without the rumor his capabilities are pretty much limited. That's why he's on the same class as Vatutin. Vatutin with rumor is superior to Manstaein without armored assault. hmm thought you were adamant about silver tiers being nowhere near gold tiers  Silver and gold tiers are a spectrum, that's different than silver and bronze though. |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Jun 5, 2020 9:44:27 GMT
hmm thought you were adamant about silver tiers being nowhere near gold tiers Silver and gold tiers are a spectrum, that's different than silver and bronze though. haha okay, now your generalization has been scoped again! Messe knocks on Timoshenko's door this time round. But in terms of usefulness Timo still has the advantage |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Jun 5, 2020 9:56:15 GMT
Silver and gold tiers are a spectrum, that's different than silver and bronze though. haha okay, now your generalization has been scoped again! Messe knocks on Timoshenko's door this time round. But in terms of usefulness Timo still has the advantage Nope, I've never said Messe is better than Timoshenko. Messe is better than Leclerc and Bock, but Timoshenko is pretty far ahead. |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Jun 5, 2020 9:57:22 GMT
haha okay, now your generalization has been scoped again! Messe knocks on Timoshenko's door this time round. But in terms of usefulness Timo still has the advantage Nope, I've never said Messe is better than Timoshenko. Messe is better than Leclerc and Bock, but Timoshenko is pretty far ahead. I didn't say that was your view, in fact it is mine in terms of max damage (like what you used for the opinion list "mistakes") |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Jun 5, 2020 9:59:43 GMT
Nope, I've never said Messe is better than Timoshenko. Messe is better than Leclerc and Bock, but Timoshenko is pretty far ahead. I didn't say that was your view, in fact it is mine in terms of max damage (like what you used for the opinion list "mistakes") In max damage Vatutin should've been ahead of Patton, but that's not the case for me, I also take movement, air power, and other skills into considerations. That's why Messe is an exception to my 'generalization' (and Manstein as well) |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Jun 5, 2020 10:00:51 GMT
I didn't say that was your view, in fact it is mine in terms of max damage (like what you used for the opinion list "mistakes") In max damage Vatutin should've been ahead of Patton, but that's not the case for me, I also take movement, air power, and other skills into considerations. That's why Messe is an exception to my 'generalization' (and Manstein as well) Hmm you admitted otherwise, which is seriously confusing. Let's just say you did both, and "considered all options" |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Jun 5, 2020 10:03:02 GMT
In max damage Vatutin should've been ahead of Patton, but that's not the case for me, I also take movement, air power, and other skills into considerations. That's why Messe is an exception to my 'generalization' (and Manstein as well) Hmm you admitted otherwise, which is seriously confusing. Let's just say you did both, and "considered all options" Which one of my words you find contradictory? Overall Patton is slightly above Vatutin, that's my past and current standpoint. |
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Post by Mr. Beast on Jun 5, 2020 14:02:05 GMT
Hmm you admitted otherwise, which is seriously confusing. Let's just say you did both, and "considered all options" Which one of my words you find contradictory? Overall Patton is slightly above Vatutin, that's my past and current standpoint. I would say Patton=Vatutin |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Jun 6, 2020 5:03:38 GMT
Which one of my words you find contradictory? Overall Patton is slightly above Vatutin, that's my past and current standpoint. I would say Patton=Vatutin Vatutin seems cheaper and offers more relevant skills haha. Pity the lack of Armored Assault |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Jun 6, 2020 5:55:41 GMT
Which one of my words you find contradictory? Overall Patton is slightly above Vatutin, that's my past and current standpoint. I would say Patton=Vatutin You can put it that way, Patton is Vatutin with less firepower but more mobility and defensive capabilities. |
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Jun 6, 2020 14:46:18 GMT
My head hurts now.
I'd say Patton is about the same as Vatutin. Just look at Allies 11 in Pacific they both disappear withing 2 turns of touching the Japanese mainland lol.
But as enemy units, I'd say Vatutin as an enemy is scarier than Patton simply because Vatutin actually moves around while Patton usually just sits in his city waiting for death.
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Post by Naveen Hanza on Jun 6, 2020 15:18:43 GMT
My head hurts now. I'd say Patton is about the same as Vatutin. Just look at Allies 11 in Pacific they both disappear withing 2 turns of touching the Japanese mainland lol. But as enemy units, I'd say Vatutin as an enemy is scarier than Patton simply because Vatutin actually moves around while Patton usually just sits in his city waiting for death. Yes. Thanks, we got stop even the most stubborn enemies. |
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Post by Avatar_Hoodie on Apr 11, 2021 19:25:48 GMT
once i had level one rumor on Rommel trigger 3 times in a row. and in the same level i had level one rumor on Nimitz trigger something like 3-4 times in a row
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Post by journeykeen on Apr 12, 2021 2:11:13 GMT
Just cam across this... beautiful thread except for one thing: explosives is easily a 1.0 point and PF should be .5.
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Post by sean1917 on Apr 14, 2021 23:24:07 GMT
I mostly agree with the tier structure but I think it is sad that Sun doesn't have one more empty slot. We could do so much more with him then.
But he ain't likely going to survive going head to head with most generals... he is a good Support general because of the damage bonuses for terrain but not enough to be a heavy hitter.
In a proper mod I give Sun Machinist so I can try to make the best use of Crossfire... proper=machinist with useful HP restoration, but otherwise Rumor would be helpful instead.
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