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Post by Darth Nihilus on Jun 3, 2020 19:25:31 GMT
Tier list 1: Quality of generals only (peak form)
Point system awarded as follows: +1 point: - Infantry stars - Free skill slots - Skills: Plain fighting, infantry leader, cover, raider, rumour +0.5 points: - Other terrain boosts - Explosives, crossfire, ace forces, bayonet charge, guerrilla + 0.4 points: - Mobility stars + 0.25 points: - Replacement Note: These are the generals maximum potentials. In a level without any deserts, Nasser would be in E tier. Tier separations as follows: S: 12+ pointsA: 11 - 11.9B: 10 - 10.9C: 9 - 9.9D: 8 - 8.9E: 7 - 7.9F: 6 - 6.9Tier list 2: Generals w/ cost effectiveness
Same point system, however with this addition: -1 points: - Cost per 500 medals for gold, per 350 medals for silver, and per 200 medals for bronze Tier separations (same as for tanks): S: 10+A: 8-9.9B: 6-7.9C: 5-6.9D: 4.5-4.9E: 4-4.4F: 3.5-3.9Note that there are no generals in S tier You're more than welcome to help me make the following tier lists: - Navy (w/o carriers) - Navy (carriers only) - Defense (mostly air) - Skills (per category) - Landmarks - Wonders - IDK add suggestions
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Post by Mr. Beast on Jun 4, 2020 3:14:17 GMT
Ok. Here we go again.
For quality: Move Rundstedt to A cuz his exactly the same as Macarthur when at max. Take down Model&Heinrici and put up Kuribayashi instead. Also move Zhukov to C.
For cost: Mannerheim to S cuz why not, Rundstedt to A to fill in space, and Konev to B (an amazing arty AND infantry for like 1500 medals). Move Macarthur and Nasser to C (Macarthur is wayyy to expensive and Nasser has 3 STARS for 700 medals). Lol I wonder where Zhukov is for costing thousands of medals aka tier Z.
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Post by George Washington on Jun 4, 2020 3:18:37 GMT
It's nice to know Mannerheim ranks so high despite having Plastic Garbage.
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Post by Mr. Beast on Jun 4, 2020 3:25:20 GMT
It's nice to know Mannerheim ranks so high despite having Plastic Garbage. He cost 1600, has raider level 3 starting out which makes him superior than Yamashita in the beginning), and with medals, he's OP in jungles which are common. Yamashita costs 2200 and still need tons of medals to be great but Mannerheim only needs few for infantry leader and maybe jungle. Btw Rundstedt has Elastic too. When I use him in mods, he's OP especially when he's in an australian commando and is on a jungle. Sadly the truth is, you only need Konev.
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Jun 4, 2020 8:10:01 GMT
Tier list 1: Quality of generals only (peak form)
Point system awarded as follows: +1 point: - Infantry stars - Free skill slots - Skills: Plain fighting, infantry leader, cover, raider, rumour +0.5 points: - Other terrain boosts - Explosives, crossfire, ace forces, bayonet charge, guerrilla + 0.4 points: - Mobility stars + 0.25 points: - Replacement Note: These are the generals maximum potentials. In a level without any deserts, Nasser would be in E tier. Tier separations as follows: S: 12+ pointsA: 11 - 11.9B: 10 - 10.9C: 9 - 9.9D: 8 - 8.9E: 7 - 7.9F: 6 - 6.9Tier list 2: Generals w/ cost effectiveness
Same point system, however with this addition: -1 points: - Cost per 500 medals for gold, per 350 medals for silver, and per 200 medals for bronze Tier separations (same as for tanks): S: 10+A: 8-9.9B: 6-7.9C: 5-6.9D: 4.5-4.9E: 4-4.4F: 3.5-3.9Note that there are no generals in S tier You're more than welcome to help me make the following tier lists: - Navy (w/o carriers) - Navy (carriers only) - Defense (mostly air) - Skills (per category) - Landmarks - Wonders - IDK add suggestions
This is madness. Empty skill slot means everything, you could give any skills there. Mannerheim is definitely not S. He is too fragile and reckless. Yamashita with guerrilla or Rundstedt with raider could replace him anytime. Rundstedt is not C obviously, he should be number 1 or 2 if you give him raider and rumor. Nasser is not C, he should've been E or F as he doesn't have any skills to increase his survivability or rumor to paralize enemies, plain fighting sucks on infantries, and desert fighting is almost useless. Here's the 'law', anyone from tier 2 is better than anyone from tier 1, and so does tier 3 compared to tier 2. Prove me wrong and give me examples, I'll prove my 'law' to you.
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Jun 4, 2020 8:44:10 GMT
Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC, if you were arguing this in the context of artillery/tanks, then sure go ahead. But wc4 is a special game, with special commando units possessing terrain bonuses. Additionally, forests take less damage from artillery AND tanks, so Mannerheim would be capable of tearing down cities quickly, and also inflicting heavy damage against other enemies with his jungle fighting. Of course, his elastic defence and the lack of 1 extra skill makes him appear choked and stifled as compared to Rundstedt (def not Yamashita, hes the best), but unlike Rundsetdt he can have a terrain skill plus explosives for cities, or if wanted infantry leader for all-purposes. Rundstedt starts off worse with 2 useless skills (city and elastic), and raider must go on him, so the last spot has a more significant sacrifice to be made [infantry lead/explosives/rumor]. Adding on, Rundstedt will never deal more damage than Mannerheim, since he only has 1 damage boosting skill if he were to go with rumor raider. However, due to the price diff I would without a doubt go with Rundstedt; even with the additional 1 skill to be added on it is covered within the price gap. However, considering that a second infantry gen after Konev/yamashita usually comes at the endgame/when ur roster is complete, you would already have accumulated sufficient medals, so this price difference will not affect one in choosing Mannerheim's superior damage over Rundstedt's, who is more suited for defending (dont blame me thats what ET wants him to precisely do with city plus elastic) or attacking enemy units (artillery/tanks not good choices. Madman if you use yamashita to engage lets say Benteke on a tank Your definition of far better does not take into account the forum's needs; esp for beginners considering cost-efficiency over max potential. Sometimes while determining rank you switch the definitions, so on another day I might be convincing you otherwise
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Jun 4, 2020 8:46:45 GMT
Can we agree that the sole use of infantry generals should be in city busting capabilities? If not I would imagine it would be far-fetched advocating for infantry generals that actively seek out and attack enemy units, especially generals. City offense should and will always remain the top and only priority when looking to hire an infantry general on your team. If not, you are looking in the wrong category; move to artillery/tanks instead.
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Post by Naveen Hanza on Jun 4, 2020 10:16:24 GMT
Can we agree that the sole use of infantry generals should be in city busting capabilities? If not I would imagine it would be far-fetched advocating for infantry generals that actively seek out and attack enemy units, especially generals. City offense should and will always remain the top and only priority when looking to hire an infantry general on your team. If not, you are looking in the wrong category; move to artillery/tanks instead. In my opinion, infantry are for capturing freshly wrecked cities(Tanks destroy, then moves to the next target according to my blitz) and to defend empty cities so enemy will not paratrooper on it.
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Jun 4, 2020 12:29:43 GMT
Can we agree that the sole use of infantry generals should be in city busting capabilities? If not I would imagine it would be far-fetched advocating for infantry generals that actively seek out and attack enemy units, especially generals. City offense should and will always remain the top and only priority when looking to hire an infantry general on your team. If not, you are looking in the wrong category; move to artillery/tanks instead. In my opinion, infantry are for capturing freshly wrecked cities(Tanks destroy, then moves to the next target according to my blitz) and to defend empty cities so enemy will not paratrooper on it. I meant and specified "infantry generals"
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Post by Naveen Hanza on Jun 4, 2020 14:12:06 GMT
In my opinion, infantry are for capturing freshly wrecked cities(Tanks destroy, then moves to the next target according to my blitz) and to defend empty cities so enemy will not paratrooper on it. I meant and specified "infantry generals" Oops, sorry. I do not have much experience about infantry generals. Infantry in overall is weak. Any general used in Infantry must be ridiculously mobile to avoid unnecessary inconvenience IMO. I think, it is better to refer the experienced better players in the forum.
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Post by Darth Nihilus on Jun 4, 2020 14:54:50 GMT
Ok. Here we go again. For quality: Move Rundstedt to A cuz his exactly the same as Macarthur when at max. Take down Model&Heinrici and put up Kuribayashi instead. Also move Zhukov to C. For cost: Mannerheim to S cuz why not, Rundstedt to A to fill in space, and Konev to B (an amazing arty AND infantry for like 1500 medals). Move Macarthur and Nasser to C (Macarthur is wayyy to expensive and Nasser has 3 STARS for 700 medals). Lol I wonder where Zhukov is for costing thousands of medals aka tier Z. OK. Right away after I saw Nasser I saw his level 3 desert fighting was gonna give me problems, as well as Macarthur's useless level 3 city fighting. This is why I put the word "draft" in the title lol. The problem with Kuribayashi was that I found that his skills were relatively less good than the other bronze generals, and his cost is also slightly on the higher end. However, conquest has proven me wrong time and time again with his output, so I'll move him. As for Heinrici, his rumour and Infantry Leader perhaps gives him an unfair advantage compared to his three infantry stars. I'll probably award more points for stars in the future (as their damage output increases exponentially rather than linear..ly?) For cost, the reason I left tier S blank is because every Infantry general has at least one blatant weakness (ex. one bad skill). Nasser and Macarthur gave me problems again (I'll award less points for terrain boosts in subsequent tier lists), and yes. Zhukov's equivalent cash price is about 3800 medals.
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Post by Mr. Beast on Jun 4, 2020 15:01:49 GMT
I meant and specified "infantry generals" Oops, sorry. I do not have much experience about infantry generals. Infantry in overall is weak. Any general used in Infantry must be ridiculously mobile to avoid unnecessary inconvenience IMO. I think, it is better to refer the experienced better players in the forum. Infantry gen is pretty much useless. Konev is enough.
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Jun 5, 2020 9:43:15 GMT
Oops, sorry. I do not have much experience about infantry generals. Infantry in overall is weak. Any general used in Infantry must be ridiculously mobile to avoid unnecessary inconvenience IMO. I think, it is better to refer the experienced better players in the forum. Infantry gen is pretty much useless. Konev is enough. ^^ the sentiments of many other orthodox players too. If you happen to already have an infantry general, but can still farm for generals relatively easily, then you dont need to worry much (yamashita is my longest serving general now that I've sold Vatutin for one year now)
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Post by Dorado St. Sebastian on Aug 11, 2022 1:33:57 GMT
Strongly disagree with the point system. Your values for skills are biased and terrible choices. Cover gets a full point? Mobility stars 0.25? Rundstedtis mediocre by your standarss and a silver tier Mannerheim and MacArthur are better? Smh. Infantry is for mobility for capturing and occupying cities. Ever hear the term "boots on the ground"? You can't occupy territories without them. This is a real thing. Best Infantry units are mech. Inf.and possibly certain commando types, depending won scenarios, Which give them boosts against defenses and cities/fortresses. Put an infantry general on one with explosives skill, and guerilla and see what happens to a fortress. I love rumor for arty first then tanks and wish I had an extra slot for it on inf. Gens but they have disadvantages vs armor. So I don't use them vs Titans, for 3xample. Their jobs are to get to targets, capture and hold... Possibly until an air gen arrives. So skills and abilities like damage vs strongholds, explosives, mobility and guerilla to stop counter attacks are essential. Yamashita and Runstedt are great if used properly. Even elastic defense can be taken advantage of building def. Unit's around captured city and street fighter make him a dug in diehard in cities vs anything. Mine has no explosives and why I'm considering getting Yamashita also, but he still rocks and without being maxed yet. Even Graziani is underestimated here. He has plenty stars in tank, arty, and infantry and his skills are flexible enough that he can be a Great hybrid. Explosives and rumor on him will enable him to be a decent general on 3 unit types at least. For those scenarios where you don't have many choices.
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Post by YDE on Sept 6, 2022 5:42:48 GMT
Strongly disagree with the point system. Your values for skills are biased and terrible choices. Cover gets a full point? Mobility stars 0.25? Rundstedtis mediocre by your standarss and a silver tier Mannerheim and MacArthur are better? Smh. Infantry is for mobility for capturing and occupying cities. Ever hear the term "boots on the ground"? You can't occupy territories without them. This is a real thing. Best Infantry units are mech. Inf.and possibly certain commando types, depending won scenarios, Which give them boosts against defenses and cities/fortresses. Put an infantry general on one with explosives skill, and guerilla and see what happens to a fortress. I love rumor for arty first then tanks and wish I had an extra slot for it on inf. Gens but they have disadvantages vs armor. So I don't use them vs Titans, for 3xample. Their jobs are to get to targets, capture and hold... Possibly until an air gen arrives. So skills and abilities like damage vs strongholds, explosives, mobility and guerilla to stop counter attacks are essential. Yamashita and Runstedt are great if used properly. Even elastic defense can be taken advantage of building def. Unit's around captured city and street fighter make him a dug in diehard in cities vs anything. Mine has no explosives and why I'm considering getting Yamashita also, but he still rocks and without being maxed yet. Even Graziani is underestimated here. He has plenty stars in tank, arty, and infantry and his skills are flexible enough that he can be a Great hybrid. Explosives and rumor on him will enable him to be a decent general on 3 unit types at least. For those scenarios where you don't have many choices. I agree, especially with the Graziani point. His mountain fighting + italian commandos (because duh) and he'll be annihilating enemy tanks, plus mountains give an extra defense against armor (and if you're feeling rich, guerrilla to avoid damage, or cover) Yamashita is and always will be my go to inf general, and he is my God for frontier. One on one with Guderian, Yama outlcasses him against fortresses. Inf leader + explosives + mech infantry with max siege, or even better polish/australian commandos, and that fortress is going down quick. Add the excellency medal and that fortress won't let 3-4 turns!!! My guderian with explosives + excellency medal + tank medal could take down a 2k health fortress in 3-4 turns, and that's without max AA and a medal increasing AA (I gave Guderian blitzkrieg medal for obvious reasons)
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