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Post by SolidLight on Jun 22, 2020 20:40:06 GMT
Please don’t do this. If you really want to find out how to evaluate things, get a comprehensive understanding of the game yourself. Look at the damage formula (EW6:1804 has one, and it’s the best we have available) and work out the math. There’s usually a lot of guides with factually incorrect and bad advice on a lot of strategy games because a lot of them are deceptively complicated under their simple guise. That old guide isn’t just outdated, it was wrong on a bunch of different things even back then. i rush city and forts, thats y i value storm fort, i use my cav to do most of the damage to enemy units, i don't rely on arty to deal damage to enemy inf or cav, i have cav for that. thats why arty are valuable, If that is the case then you really shouldn’t prioritize Storm Forts that highly. As I’ve said. +% atk skills, especially terrain skills, add a lot more damage than + flat damage skills because atk is affected by the weapon type while flat damage is not. |
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tokra
First Lieutenant
Posts: 32
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Post by tokra on Jun 22, 2020 20:40:30 GMT
The last is wrong. Storm forti is absolutly not needed for completing the game. In my opinion it is better to deal more dmg to any target. Like enemy gens sitting on armored cars. Or navy gens. The point is that any other skill deals also dmg to cities. We had this discussion many times, this skill is not that game braking as you describe. The guide is also realy outdated. if you know which are the best skills for arty, then you should be able to complete all campaign and conquest challenges then? I already proofed you wrong in another topic. So please, be kind sir. |
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Post by SolidLight on Jun 22, 2020 20:43:04 GMT
Ugh, so I just tried to make a really really through answer here including doing lots of math, but unfortunately since I'm bad at math I ended up bamboozled after a while, but I can safely say atleast that Storm forts, along with Salvo, are waay less impactful than terrain skills when sieging. I might make a thread in the future if I can get my math correct though, which I can’t gurantee I will. I think Storm forts is just okay since it's effective against a useful target but strictly worse than Salvo. I mean, we're going to be running mountain, jungle, expert, tactic master and salvo. If we're assuming maximum damage output and speed. having 2 terrain skills might give you a bit more mobility but its not huge, and you can't use both jungle fighting and mountain at the same time, but you can use mountain/jungle with storm fort. Uh what the heck? Why can I only use mountain/jungle with storm forts? I crafted that skillset with the explicit purpose of maximum siege damage after trying to run everything through the damage formula. Plus mobility is just important for all purposes. |
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Post by Torvesta on Jun 22, 2020 20:47:25 GMT
i'm not arguing that terrain skills don't add more damage to enemy units, but you are ignoring the fact that having jungle in addition to mountain will not improve mobility much.
if you have 2 beselers with same skills and items except one has 2 terrain and the other has storm fort, the beseler with storm fort will deal more damage to cities + forts and less to normal units in most scenarios. if you think dealing more damage to units is better than to cities + forts, then go with 2 terrain skills, but in my experience with campaigns and conquests, taking cities is the most important thing, especially in conquests where you need to rush the enemy so they don't grow too strong
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Post by Torvesta on Jun 22, 2020 20:48:35 GMT
having 2 terrain skills might give you a bit more mobility but its not huge, and you can't use both jungle fighting and mountain at the same time, but you can use mountain/jungle with storm fort. Uh what the heck? Why can I only use mountain/jungle with storm forts? I crafted that skillset with the explicit purpose of maximum siege damage after trying to run everything through the damage formula. Plus mobility is just important for all purposes. you can only be on a mountain or a forest - you can't be on those terrains at the same time so the skills won't trigger for both, only one terrain skill, but storm fort and mountain/jungle can trigger at the same time. |
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Post by SolidLight on Jun 22, 2020 20:57:21 GMT
Uh what the heck? Why can I only use mountain/jungle with storm forts? I crafted that skillset with the explicit purpose of maximum siege damage after trying to run everything through the damage formula. Plus mobility is just important for all purposes. you can only be on a mountain or a forest - you can't be on those terrains at the same time so the skills won't trigger for both, only one terrain skill, but storm fort or mountain/jungle can trigger at the same time. Ok. So both of those statements of yours are factually incorrect. Storm forts is + 20 flat damage. Not affected by ANYTHING other than whether or not the city has a garrison or not. As I’ve said, I just did a lot of math right now to find out the answer to whether or not Storm Forts is good.I ALSO ran a test to reverse engineer the defense stats on cities. I got 47 def on cities. And how much base atk do you need for +25% atk to be better than +20 flat damage? I got 78,4 atk. ALL artillery units except for Aboriginal Artillery IIRC has higher than that. So + % atk is ALWAYS better than + flat damage for the purposes of sieging. The guy with storm forts will deal less damage to both units AND cities. And you CAN stack forests and mountains. Those tiles exist and aren’t even that rare. You can also stack forests and deserts since cactuses count as both. Also, the mobility point is just a plus. I crafted that skillset for maximum siege damage. As I’ve said. That’s why I didn’t really make a big deal out of it. |
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Post by AlterFritz on Jun 22, 2020 21:00:00 GMT
Uh what the heck? Why can I only use mountain/jungle with storm forts? I crafted that skillset with the explicit purpose of maximum siege damage after trying to run everything through the damage formula. Plus mobility is just important for all purposes. you can only be on a mountain or a forest - you can't be on those terrains at the same time so the skills won't trigger for both, only one terrain skill, but storm fort and mountain/jungle can trigger at the same time. This is wrong. I proofed that in an other thread with stonewall (he has mf+pf) on mountain/forest tile. |
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Post by Torvesta on Jun 22, 2020 21:01:47 GMT
you can only be on a mountain or a forest - you can't be on those terrains at the same time so the skills won't trigger for both, only one terrain skill, but storm fort or mountain/jungle can trigger at the same time. Ok. So both of those statements of yours are factually incorrect. Storm forts is + 20 flat damage. Not affected by ANYTHING other than whether or not the city has a garrison or not. As I’ve said, I just did a lot of math right now to find out the answer to whether or not Storm Forts is good.I ALSO ran a test to reverse engineer the defense stats on cities. I got 47 def on cities. And how much base atk do you need for +25% atk to be better than +20 flat damage? I got 78,4 atk. ALL artillery units except for Aboriginal Artillery IIRC has higher than that. So + % atk is ALWAYS better than + flat damage for the purposes of sieging. The guy with storm forts will deal less damage to both units AND cities. And you CAN stack forests and mountains. Those tiles exist and aren’t even that rare. You can also stack forests and deserts since cactuses count as both. Also, the mobility point is just a plus. I crafted that skillset for maximum siege damage. As I’ve said. That’s why I didn’t really make a big deal out of it. thanks for correcting me |
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Post by Gone on Jun 23, 2020 0:44:21 GMT
Ok. So both of those statements of yours are factually incorrect. Storm forts is + 20 flat damage. Not affected by ANYTHING other than whether or not the city has a garrison or not. As I’ve said, I just did a lot of math right now to find out the answer to whether or not Storm Forts is good.I ALSO ran a test to reverse engineer the defense stats on cities. I got 47 def on cities. And how much base atk do you need for +25% atk to be better than +20 flat damage? I got 78,4 atk. ALL artillery units except for Aboriginal Artillery IIRC has higher than that. So + % atk is ALWAYS better than + flat damage for the purposes of sieging. The guy with storm forts will deal less damage to both units AND cities. And you CAN stack forests and mountains. Those tiles exist and aren’t even that rare. You can also stack forests and deserts since cactuses count as both. Also, the mobility point is just a plus. I crafted that skillset for maximum siege damage. As I’ve said. That’s why I didn’t really make a big deal out of it. thanks for correcting me Acknowledging that you are incorrect is one of the most important skills someone can learn. |
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Post by Darth Vader on Jun 23, 2020 1:09:52 GMT
" The ability to destory a plant is small compared to the power of the force"
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Jun 23, 2020 12:20:16 GMT
" The ability to destory a plant is small compared to the power of the force" And then again, this is a completely random statement  |
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Post by Darth Vader on Jun 23, 2020 14:26:13 GMT
Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr, not really, the skills could be a little off like some generals abiltys seem like the never go off while others go off almost every round.
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