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Post by 6Johnny23 on Feb 12, 2021 14:41:07 GMT
Bayonet Charge, Tide of Iron, and Artillery Barrage. These three skills are health dependent. They give out bonuses to infantry, panzers, and artillery respectively when they are at 50% of their HP. But this thread is made for people who think that these skills are good.
First of all, they don't even work when above half, which makes them pretty useless when you have been using a general who just SWEEPS units in two hits, like Guderian. And who would intentionally harm the backbone of their army? Who would want to sacrifice, say 200 HP, for just for a small increase of damage? This 50% HP thing just makes the unit easier to kill, and if you stack up on health, it's just going to be harder to lose half of it. Plus, there are no ways for healing except horrible skills that give you around 10 HP a turn. 20 turns to get to full 400 health. Although I could see this being used as a last ditch effort, what are the chances that it's actually going to be useful? An extra 10 HP of damage doesn't even compare to a whole new unit doing 20 or 30 damage. That's why you see that Guderian is said tobe the best WC4 tank general (which he is), and Manstein as a step below. In Zhukov's case, it's not that bad as there are no other artillery based skills, and I could see you using the 3-5 star mobility stars to get away from a Rundstedt or Yamashita just chasing you. These skills are just useable when you take very good care of your generals, putting them in dangerous positions, and then moving them out and having them sweep, neglecing the loss of damage from loss of HP. Oh wait, did I mention that? No? Well, when you lose HP, your attack decreases. With this, we an assume if you have a Manstein at half health, he probably does Full HP Manstein's job, just a little bit better, or a little worse. These skills can compromise a general, and are only suited for units that fight very often, and get damage back. Blitzkrieg, one of the best skills in the game, can make it harder to reduce your HP. In short, these skills leave your generals compromised, weak, no better than before, and vulnerable.
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Feb 16, 2021 16:52:40 GMT
Bayonet Charge, Tide of Iron, and Artillery Barrage. These three skills are health dependent. They give out bonuses to infantry, panzers, and artillery respectively when they are at 50% of their HP. But this thread is made for people who think that these skills are good.
First of all, they don't even work when above half, which makes them pretty useless when you have been using a general who just SWEEPS units in two hits, like Guderian. And who would intentionally harm the backbone of their army? Who would want to sacrifice, say 200 HP, for just for a small increase of damage? This 50% HP thing just makes the unit easier to kill, and if you stack up on health, it's just going to be harder to lose half of it. Plus, there are no ways for healing except horrible skills that give you around 10 HP a turn. 20 turns to get to full 400 health. Although I could see this being used as a last ditch effort, what are the chances that it's actually going to be useful? An extra 10 HP of damage doesn't even compare to a whole new unit doing 20 or 30 damage. That's why you see that Guderian is said tobe the best WC4 tank general (which he is), and Manstein as a step below. In Zhukov's case, it's not that bad as there are no other artillery based skills, and I could see you using the 3-5 star mobility stars to get away from a Rundstedt or Yamashita just chasing you. These skills are just useable when you take very good care of your generals, putting them in dangerous positions, and then moving them out and having them sweep, neglecing the loss of damage from loss of HP. Oh wait, did I mention that? No? Well, when you lose HP, your attack decreases. With this, we an assume if you have a Manstein at half health, he probably does Full HP Manstein's job, just a little bit better, or a little worse. These skills can compromise a general, and are only suited for units that fight very often, and get damage back. Blitzkrieg, one of the best skills in the game, can make it harder to reduce your HP. In short, these skills leave your generals compromised, weak, no better than before, and vulnerable.
Pardon me, but it is inevitable later on that your gens will be damaged at least halfway, and these skills assist in damage reduction. Edit: Sorry, they help with HP-Damage ratio being less weighty. |
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Feb 16, 2021 17:39:27 GMT
Bayonet Charge, Tide of Iron, and Artillery Barrage. These three skills are health dependent. They give out bonuses to infantry, panzers, and artillery respectively when they are at 50% of their HP. But this thread is made for people who think that these skills are good.
First of all, they don't even work when above half, which makes them pretty useless when you have been using a general who just SWEEPS units in two hits, like Guderian. And who would intentionally harm the backbone of their army? Who would want to sacrifice, say 200 HP, for just for a small increase of damage? This 50% HP thing just makes the unit easier to kill, and if you stack up on health, it's just going to be harder to lose half of it. Plus, there are no ways for healing except horrible skills that give you around 10 HP a turn. 20 turns to get to full 400 health. Although I could see this being used as a last ditch effort, what are the chances that it's actually going to be useful? An extra 10 HP of damage doesn't even compare to a whole new unit doing 20 or 30 damage. That's why you see that Guderian is said tobe the best WC4 tank general (which he is), and Manstein as a step below. In Zhukov's case, it's not that bad as there are no other artillery based skills, and I could see you using the 3-5 star mobility stars to get away from a Rundstedt or Yamashita just chasing you. These skills are just useable when you take very good care of your generals, putting them in dangerous positions, and then moving them out and having them sweep, neglecing the loss of damage from loss of HP. Oh wait, did I mention that? No? Well, when you lose HP, your attack decreases. With this, we an assume if you have a Manstein at half health, he probably does Full HP Manstein's job, just a little bit better, or a little worse. These skills can compromise a general, and are only suited for units that fight very often, and get damage back. Blitzkrieg, one of the best skills in the game, can make it harder to reduce your HP. In short, these skills leave your generals compromised, weak, no better than before, and vulnerable.
Pardon me, but it is inevitable later on that your gens will be damaged at least halfway, and these skills assist in damage reduction. Edit: Sorry, they help with HP-Damage ratio being less weighty. Sure, but what help does this do in some campaigns? This could be a useful skill in conquest as conquest has lots of units to fight, but your general will die anyways if you are not careful. There are a few ways to get to half help, intentionally and unintentionally. If you do it intentionally, you just lost 100+ HP, right there in a snap. It will be a pain to do it this way, and it leaves your general vulnerable to counterattacks. If you do it unintentionally, your main priority is healing, not attacking, as in a conquest and campaigns, some cities have healing. Sure, you will have to reach half health one day, but that day can never come if you play your cards right. And I agree, it helps close the gap between said ratio, but if you are 2/3 of your health, this skill is useless. Full health? Same effect, if not better. This skill is only really good on extremely tanky units. Even so, it wont get to half health until late in the campaign unintentionally, and if you intentionally let it sit there, it's going to die by late campaign. Fragile units can ignore this, but if you have a Zhukov on a crappy infantry unit, one hit by a Guderian and poof! Your Zhukov is dead. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Feb 16, 2021 18:52:46 GMT
Pardon me, but it is inevitable later on that your gens will be damaged at least halfway, and these skills assist in damage reduction. Edit: Sorry, they help with HP-Damage ratio being less weighty. Sure, but what help does this do in some campaigns? This could be a useful skill in conquest as conquest has lots of units to fight, but your general will die anyways if you are not careful. There are a few ways to get to half help, intentionally and unintentionally. If you do it intentionally, you just lost 100+ HP, right there in a snap. It will be a pain to do it this way, and it leaves your general vulnerable to counterattacks. If you do it unintentionally, your main priority is healing, not attacking, as in a conquest and campaigns, some cities have healing. Sure, you will have to reach half health one day, but that day can never come if you play your cards right. And I agree, it helps close the gap between said ratio, but if you are 2/3 of your health, this skill is useless. Full health? Same effect, if not better. This skill is only really good on extremely tanky units. Even so, it wont get to half health until late in the campaign unintentionally, and if you intentionally let it sit there, it's going to die by late campaign. Fragile units can ignore this, but if you have a Zhukov on a crappy infantry unit, one hit by a Guderian and poof! Your Zhukov is dead. Exactly. This skill is for meat walls like Patton (who already has it) and potentially Grazi (although it conflicts with machinist) or (dare I say it) Guderian, who will most definitely be damaged halfway at least halfway through the campaign without the option to heal, because why would you set aside Guderian for 5 turns in a campaign? You need him. However, it is also not Explosives, PF, or even crossfire, so it is really just a niche skill. |
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Feb 16, 2021 20:10:16 GMT
Sure, but what help does this do in some campaigns? This could be a useful skill in conquest as conquest has lots of units to fight, but your general will die anyways if you are not careful. There are a few ways to get to half help, intentionally and unintentionally. If you do it intentionally, you just lost 100+ HP, right there in a snap. It will be a pain to do it this way, and it leaves your general vulnerable to counterattacks. If you do it unintentionally, your main priority is healing, not attacking, as in a conquest and campaigns, some cities have healing. Sure, you will have to reach half health one day, but that day can never come if you play your cards right. And I agree, it helps close the gap between said ratio, but if you are 2/3 of your health, this skill is useless. Full health? Same effect, if not better. This skill is only really good on extremely tanky units. Even so, it wont get to half health until late in the campaign unintentionally, and if you intentionally let it sit there, it's going to die by late campaign. Fragile units can ignore this, but if you have a Zhukov on a crappy infantry unit, one hit by a Guderian and poof! Your Zhukov is dead. Exactly. This skill is for meat walls like Patton (who already has it) and potentially Grazi (although it conflicts with machinist) or (dare I say it) Guderian, who will most definitely be damaged halfway at least halfway through the campaign without the option to heal, because why would you set aside Guderian for 5 turns in a campaign? You need him. However, it is also not Explosives, PF, or even crossfire, so it is really just a niche skill. The (potential) problem with tanky generals like Patton is that it could take a long time for you to cut that health in half. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Feb 16, 2021 20:43:45 GMT
Exactly. This skill is for meat walls like Patton (who already has it) and potentially Grazi (although it conflicts with machinist) or (dare I say it) Guderian, who will most definitely be damaged halfway at least halfway through the campaign without the option to heal, because why would you set aside Guderian for 5 turns in a campaign? You need him. However, it is also not Explosives, PF, or even crossfire, so it is really just a niche skill. The (potential) problem with tanky generals like Patton is that it could take a long time for you to cut that health in half. You kidding? If they do their job (drawing fire away from your powerful units) right, then they should be halfway dead within 5-6 turns in a MW campaign. |
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Post by George Rudi on Feb 17, 2021 1:18:22 GMT
The (potential) problem with tanky generals like Patton is that it could take a long time for you to cut that health in half. You kidding? If they do their job (drawing fire away from your powerful units) right, then they should be halfway dead within 5-6 turns in a MW campaign. If you do your job right, you wont be halfway dead only within 5-6 turns in MW. There are Rumor, Blitzkrieg, Machinist, 100% assault for tanks, placement, and many other way to maintain your gen's hp. ToI (and any of its kind) is just a meh bonus skill, your last trump card on your gen's last breath. Use it well if its already your skill, but dont bother to buy if your gens aren't equipped with it. many other skills are better than ToI |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Feb 17, 2021 2:03:33 GMT
You kidding? If they do their job (drawing fire away from your powerful units) right, then they should be halfway dead within 5-6 turns in a MW campaign. If you do your job right, you wont be halfway dead only within 5-6 turns in MW. There are Rumor, Blitzkrieg, Machinist, 100% assault for tanks, placement, and many other way to maintain your gen's hp. ToI (and any of its kind) is just a meh bonus skill, your last trump card on your gen's last breath. Use it well if its already your skill, but dont bother to buy if your gens aren't equipped with it. many other skills are better than ToI I mean for meat shields. |
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Post by George Rudi on Feb 17, 2021 5:42:21 GMT
If you do your job right, you wont be halfway dead only within 5-6 turns in MW. There are Rumor, Blitzkrieg, Machinist, 100% assault for tanks, placement, and many other way to maintain your gen's hp. ToI (and any of its kind) is just a meh bonus skill, your last trump card on your gen's last breath. Use it well if its already your skill, but dont bother to buy if your gens aren't equipped with it. many other skills are better than ToI I mean for meat shields. meat shields? - like Patton? why buy him, he's inferior to other gold gen, even to silver gen like Timo or Vatutin. - Graziani? put AA and Rumor instead. even Crowd tactics or Crossfire is better on Grazi than ToI - Guderian? it's awful to put ToI on him. his Rumor/ Blitz is enough to keep Guderian stay healthy. Even under 50% Guderian > any other Gen with ToI lvl 5 - Manstein? his ToI is rarely used because of his Blitz & Marshal rank. You can't do anything with ToI if it's your base skill, upgrade later. Dont buy if it isn't, there are many skills that better and useful than ToI. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Feb 17, 2021 13:44:18 GMT
meat shields? - like Patton? why buy him, he's inferior to other gold gen, even to silver gen like Timo or Vatutin. - Graziani? put AA and Rumor instead. even Crowd tactics or Crossfire is better on Grazi than ToI - Guderian? it's awful to put ToI on him. his Rumor/ Blitz is enough to keep Guderian stay healthy. Even under 50% Guderian > any other Gen with ToI lvl 5 - Manstein? his ToI is rarely used because of his Blitz & Marshal rank. You can't do anything with ToI if it's your base skill, upgrade later. Dont buy if it isn't, there are many skills that better and useful than ToI. Excuse me? Patton is the perfect complement of Guderian. In my mind, my goal is not to have as many Guderiana as possible, but rather have a team that can work together we'll, and Patton does almost everything Guderian doesn't (which undoubtedly is not much). |
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Post by George Rudi on Feb 17, 2021 16:20:30 GMT
Excuse me? Patton is the perfect complement of Guderian. In my mind, my goal is not to have as many Guderiana as possible, but rather have a team that can work together we'll, and Patton does almost everything Guderian doesn't (which undoubtedly is not much). It's okay, it's your opinion, base on your own experience and analysis. I have my own goals too. First, complete the game (campaigns, conquest, mission, etc) which i had already achieved. Second, to complete my final lineup (which nothing in my mind that i will buy Patton), so i can have personal achievement that i'm proud of, like journeykeen speedrun records maybe (though it's almost impossible for me to beat his record 😅). Third, this forum help me a lot when i finished the game, so like the community's spirit that i know, i'd like to help everyone that need help with this game, especially beginner/ new member. That's my goal. |
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Post by journeykeen on Feb 17, 2021 19:23:33 GMT
Gerd von Rundstedt, the problem with a “meat shield” like Patton is that he is really only a meat shield in an unimportant way. If the only incoming damage is from the sky then he is, undeniably, the superior general. But if your tank generals are only taking damage from AF you are playing the game in an inefficient way. A tank general should always be in the “vanguard,” so to say. My, of course Guderian, but also Manstein, Rokko, and Rommel will all outlast Patton on the frontline WHILE doing more damage to the enemy. They will outlast Patton because of that said better damage output.
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Feb 17, 2021 23:03:34 GMT
The (potential) problem with tanky generals like Patton is that it could take a long time for you to cut that health in half. You kidding? If they do their job (drawing fire away from your powerful units) right, then they should be halfway dead within 5-6 turns in a MW campaign. If so, then they will be dead in 10-13 turns. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Feb 18, 2021 14:35:15 GMT
You kidding? If they do their job (drawing fire away from your powerful units) right, then they should be halfway dead within 5-6 turns in a MW campaign. If so, then they will be dead in 10-13 turns. But with a mostly undamaged Guderian and Konev. |
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Feb 18, 2021 15:46:51 GMT
If so, then they will be dead in 10-13 turns. But with a mostly undamaged Guderian and Konev. Yes, but can't those two just steamroll past everything? Almost everything Guderian 1-2 hits and the only real threat is aircraft and missiles, but those have problems themselves. Konev is fragile, so just put Guderian in a bodyguard role. Guderian can practically live anything that doesn't have a general and Konev, while fragile, can use Guderian for help, why Patton? Why have a general, so far from the front, just to be a distraction? And when he dies, they will just hammer the real front. Offensive generals can bodyguard weaker units from spam, and Patton just sits there. That's wasting a general, and it isn't even a sure thing for a diversion. |
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