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Post by Rodolfo Graziani on Apr 2, 2021 18:43:27 GMT
Its not actually mine, I found it on quora a couple of monhs ago, just remembered about it now and decided t put it here What spaces do you follow? History stuff |
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Post by Rodolfo Graziani on Apr 2, 2021 18:44:16 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway?
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 2, 2021 19:53:41 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? most of the US Navy was involved in it at the time. If they did win, then the United States would lose almost all of their carrier force, and they would have to fight like Japan in the later war, throwing all of their cards into the fight. Worst comes to worst, and Japan will directly threaten Hawaii, forcing the US to sue for peace. All Japan wanted was reassurance that they had supreme control over The Pacific and Asia, so their terms would only mount up to the USA pulling out of the war in Europe, while dissolving much of their Pacific fleet and giving up Hawaii. I doubt the USA would stop supplying Britain, but the British would be losing in all their other colonies, with the Japanese Imperial Army marching unrestricted through India, and no diversion of the Germans because of the unhappening of Operation Torch. Africa would become a drag, and Operation Overlord would become another Dieppe. The Soviets would advance far, but would be stopped in their tracks at Kursk. Now Hitler doesn't have to deal with the intricacies of Operation Torch, and only has one other front in Africa to deal with. All he has to do is supply Raeder enough ships to outmatch Cunningham, and the war in Africa is won. Kursk will have been won, and the Germans will launch a large counteroffensive the following May. The Japanese invade Kamchatka and Siberia, and the Soviet Union's fate is sealed. Now with the Allied Powers defunct, Britain has no choice but to surrender, or face complete annihilation. |
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Post by HangryBird on Apr 2, 2021 19:56:30 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? Japan still loses. The US will just raise more fleets and overwhelm Japan eventually. Really the only thing that this victory does is delay Japan's inevitable defeat. There is not any notable impact on the war against Germany. Germany still loses. |
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Post by HangryBird on Apr 2, 2021 20:15:03 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? most of the US Navy was involved in it at the time. If they did win, then the United States would lose almost all of their carrier force, and they would have to fight like Japan in the later war, throwing all of their cards into the fight. Worst comes to worst, and Japan will directly threaten Hawaii, forcing the US to sue for peace. All Japan wanted was reassurance that they had supreme control over The Pacific and Asia, so their terms would only mount up to the USA pulling out of the war in Europe, while dissolving much of their Pacific fleet and giving up Hawaii. I doubt the USA would stop supplying Britain, but the British would be losing in all their other colonies, with the Japanese Imperial Army marching unrestricted through India, and no diversion of the Germans because of the unhappening of Operation Torch. Africa would become a drag, and Operation Overlord would become another Dieppe. The Soviets would advance far, but would be stopped in their tracks at Kursk. Now Hitler doesn't have to deal with the intricacies of Operation Torch, and only has one other front in Africa to deal with. All he has to do is supply Raeder enough ships to outmatch Cunningham, and the war in Africa is won. Kursk will have been won, and the Germans will launch a large counteroffensive the following May. The Japanese invade Kamchatka and Siberia, and the Soviet Union's fate is sealed. Now with the Allied Powers defunct, Britain has no choice but to surrender, or face complete annihilation. Why does the US just give up just because Hawaii is threatened? Pearl Harbor made it impossible to make a negotiated peace with the US; the Axis would have to conquer all of North America. Japanese logistics were at the breaking point; how are they going to take India, even if the US sues for peace? While Operation Torch won't happen without the US, Britain will still win because Rommel will never take Egypt with his terrible logistics. It'll just take a longer time for Britain to be able to properly take advantage of its material superiority and win. Overlord would never happen without the US. If Germany invests more resources into ships for winning the naval war in the Mediterranean, that means less tanks, planes, artillery, and etc. for the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe. Thus, the Germans have a even harder time against the Soviets. Germany exhausted all of its offensive capabilities trying and failing to take Kursk OTL. How would they be able to muster a war-winning counteroffensive? How is Japan going to be able to defeat the Soviets? They have to go through Siberia, which is going to create the worst logistics in history. |
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 2, 2021 21:19:26 GMT
most of the US Navy was involved in it at the time. If they did win, then the United States would lose almost all of their carrier force, and they would have to fight like Japan in the later war, throwing all of their cards into the fight. Worst comes to worst, and Japan will directly threaten Hawaii, forcing the US to sue for peace. All Japan wanted was reassurance that they had supreme control over The Pacific and Asia, so their terms would only mount up to the USA pulling out of the war in Europe, while dissolving much of their Pacific fleet and giving up Hawaii. I doubt the USA would stop supplying Britain, but the British would be losing in all their other colonies, with the Japanese Imperial Army marching unrestricted through India, and no diversion of the Germans because of the unhappening of Operation Torch. Africa would become a drag, and Operation Overlord would become another Dieppe. The Soviets would advance far, but would be stopped in their tracks at Kursk. Now Hitler doesn't have to deal with the intricacies of Operation Torch, and only has one other front in Africa to deal with. All he has to do is supply Raeder enough ships to outmatch Cunningham, and the war in Africa is won. Kursk will have been won, and the Germans will launch a large counteroffensive the following May. The Japanese invade Kamchatka and Siberia, and the Soviet Union's fate is sealed. Now with the Allied Powers defunct, Britain has no choice but to surrender, or face complete annihilation. Why does the US just give up just because Hawaii is threatened? Pearl Harbor made it impossible to make a negotiated peace with the US; the Axis would have to conquer all of North America. Japanese logistics were at the breaking point; how are they going to take India, even if the US sues for peace? While Operation Torch won't happen without the US, Britain will still win because Rommel will never take Egypt with his terrible logistics. It'll just take a longer time for Britain to be able to properly take advantage of its material superiority and win. Overlord would never happen without the US. If Germany invests more resources into ships for winning the naval war in the Mediterranean, that means less tanks, planes, artillery, and etc. for the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe. Thus, the Germans have a even harder time against the Soviets. Germany exhausted all of its offensive capabilities trying and failing to take Kursk OTL. How would they be able to muster a war-winning counteroffensive? How is Japan going to be able to defeat the Soviets? They have to go through Siberia, which is going to create the worst logistics in history. OK, you have a point. I was looking at it more from Japan's POV. They wanted to make sure that they were the sole owner of all Pacific territories. They did not want to invade North America, but it does seem you are better at this than me soooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 1:31:41 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? Battle of Midway is turning point because Japan needed to win every battle due to their disadvantage in resources, so for Japan , they must defeat everything USA is coming up with even after desicive victory at midway. This was the same case with CSA in American Civil War. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 1:37:48 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? most of the US Navy was involved in it at the time. If they did win, then the United States would lose almost all of their carrier force, and they would have to fight like Japan in the later war, throwing all of their cards into the fight. Worst comes to worst, and Japan will directly threaten Hawaii, forcing the US to sue for peace. All Japan wanted was reassurance that they had supreme control over The Pacific and Asia, so their terms would only mount up to the USA pulling out of the war in Europe, while dissolving much of their Pacific fleet and giving up Hawaii. I doubt the USA would stop supplying Britain, but the British would be losing in all their other colonies, with the Japanese Imperial Army marching unrestricted through India, and no diversion of the Germans because of the unhappening of Operation Torch. Africa would become a drag, and Operation Overlord would become another Dieppe. The Soviets would advance far, but would be stopped in their tracks at Kursk. Now Hitler doesn't have to deal with the intricacies of Operation Torch, and only has one other front in Africa to deal with. All he has to do is supply Raeder enough ships to outmatch Cunningham, and the war in Africa is won. Kursk will have been won, and the Germans will launch a large counteroffensive the following May. The Japanese invade Kamchatka and Siberia, and the Soviet Union's fate is sealed. Now with the Allied Powers defunct, Britain has no choice but to surrender, or face complete annihilation. IJA's attempt to in invade India was defeated at Burma-India Border by British imperial armies led by William Slim in real life so how you can say Japan will march unopposed in India if USA is defeated. |
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Post by John Marston on Apr 3, 2021 5:41:37 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? Japan still loses. The US will just raise more fleets and overwhelm Japan eventually. Really the only thing that this victory does is delay Japan's inevitable defeat. There is not any notable impact on the war against Germany. Germany still loses. Agreed |
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 3, 2021 13:37:32 GMT
most of the US Navy was involved in it at the time. If they did win, then the United States would lose almost all of their carrier force, and they would have to fight like Japan in the later war, throwing all of their cards into the fight. Worst comes to worst, and Japan will directly threaten Hawaii, forcing the US to sue for peace. All Japan wanted was reassurance that they had supreme control over The Pacific and Asia, so their terms would only mount up to the USA pulling out of the war in Europe, while dissolving much of their Pacific fleet and giving up Hawaii. I doubt the USA would stop supplying Britain, but the British would be losing in all their other colonies, with the Japanese Imperial Army marching unrestricted through India, and no diversion of the Germans because of the unhappening of Operation Torch. Africa would become a drag, and Operation Overlord would become another Dieppe. The Soviets would advance far, but would be stopped in their tracks at Kursk. Now Hitler doesn't have to deal with the intricacies of Operation Torch, and only has one other front in Africa to deal with. All he has to do is supply Raeder enough ships to outmatch Cunningham, and the war in Africa is won. Kursk will have been won, and the Germans will launch a large counteroffensive the following May. The Japanese invade Kamchatka and Siberia, and the Soviet Union's fate is sealed. Now with the Allied Powers defunct, Britain has no choice but to surrender, or face complete annihilation. IJA's attempt to in invade India was defeated at Burma-India Border by British imperial armies led by William Slim in real life so how you can say Japan will march unopposed in India if USA is defeated. yea, I kinda messed that up. I was thinking that with the USA out of the war, the IJA wouldn't have to stuff thousands of troops in the tiny islands of the Pacific. Also, Slim's army was on it's last legs. The only reason why they won was the luck of defending in the monsoon, and William Slim's tactical genius. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 14:56:13 GMT
IJA's attempt to in invade India was defeated at Burma-India Border by British imperial armies led by William Slim in real life so how you can say Japan will march unopposed in India if USA is defeated. yea, I kinda messed that up. I was thinking that with the USA out of the war, the IJA wouldn't have to stuff thousands of troops in the tiny islands of the Pacific. Also, Slim's army was on it's last legs. The only reason why they won was the luck of defending in the monsoon, and William Slim's tactical genius. No, it was IJA which was having problems. Slim's army is most underrated. If it was on its last leg then how did it went all the way upto Singapore. It has very well supply system thanks to RIAF. IJA's campaign was mostly dependent on Indian soldiers rebelling when seeing Subhash Chandra Bose was on Japanese side. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 15:08:57 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? Japan still loses. The US will just raise more fleets and overwhelm Japan eventually. Really the only thing that this victory does is delay Japan's inevitable defeat. There is not any notable impact on the war against Germany. Germany still loses. It will take months to build new carriers(and now obsolete battleships) so it wouldn't be that easy for USA. Japan might have Chance in that period. |
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Post by Warlord247 on Apr 3, 2021 16:59:31 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? Japan would still most likely lose due to the U.S raising more fleets. There is a different point in history however, that could lead to a Japanese victory. Pearl Harbour While seen as a victory for the Japanese, the attack on Pearl Harbour actually didn't go as they intended. Their original plan involved 15 waves of air Bombardment, destroying the U.S ships, airfields, fuel yards, repair yards, and anything else useful. They cut their plan short after the 3rd wave though , due to the absence of the American carriers.
All U.S ships were supposed to be at the Harbour at the same time. A storm the night before though had left the U.S carriers 6 hours out. The Japanese, fearing a U.S counter attack from their carriers, fled. This left most of the repair and fueling yards intact. If there hadn't been a storm the night before, the entirety of the U.S navy would be destroyed, with no way to repair it. In short, the U.S would be sitting ducks.
I would suggest looking this up on your own. It's been a little while since I researched this, so my details could be off. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 17:12:19 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? Japan would still most likely lose due to the U.S raising more fleets. There is a different point in history however, that could lead to a Japanese victory. Pearl Harbour While seen as a victory for the Japanese, the attack on Pearl Harbour actually didn't go as they intended. Their original plan involved 15 waves of air Bombardment, destroying the U.S ships, airfields, fuel yards, repair yards, and anything else useful. They cut their plan short after the 3rd wave though , due to the absence of the American carriers.
All U.S ships were supposed to be at the Harbour at the same time. A storm the night before though had left the U.S carriers 6 hours out. The Japanese, fearing a U.S counter attack from their carriers, fled. This left most of the repair and fueling yards intact. If there hadn't been a storm the night before, the entirety of the U.S navy would be destroyed, with no way to repair it. In short, the U.S would be sitting ducks.
I would suggest looking this up on your own. It's been a little while since I researched this, so my details could be off. It will be difficult than real life and Japanese might even win. |
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Post by Warlord247 on Apr 3, 2021 17:16:00 GMT
Japan would still most likely lose due to the U.S raising more fleets. There is a different point in history however, that could lead to a Japanese victory. Pearl Harbour While seen as a victory for the Japanese, the attack on Pearl Harbour actually didn't go as they intended. Their original plan involved 15 waves of air Bombardment, destroying the U.S ships, airfields, fuel yards, repair yards, and anything else useful. They cut their plan short after the 3rd wave though , due to the absence of the American carriers.
All U.S ships were supposed to be at the Harbour at the same time. A storm the night before though had left the U.S carriers 6 hours out. The Japanese, fearing a U.S counter attack from their carriers, fled. This left most of the repair and fueling yards intact. If there hadn't been a storm the night before, the entirety of the U.S navy would be destroyed, with no way to repair it. In short, the U.S would be sitting ducks.
I would suggest looking this up on your own. It's been a little while since I researched this, so my details could be off. It will be difficult than real life and Japanese might even win. Fair enough |
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