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Post by HangryBird on Apr 3, 2021 17:37:06 GMT
What happens if Japan decisively wins the battle of Midway? Japan would still most likely lose due to the U.S raising more fleets. There is a different point in history however, that could lead to a Japanese victory. Pearl Harbour While seen as a victory for the Japanese, the attack on Pearl Harbour actually didn't go as they intended. Their original plan involved 15 waves of air Bombardment, destroying the U.S ships, airfields, fuel yards, repair yards, and anything else useful. They cut their plan short after the 3rd wave though , due to the absence of the American carriers.
All U.S ships were supposed to be at the Harbour at the same time. A storm the night before though had left the U.S carriers 6 hours out. The Japanese, fearing a U.S counter attack from their carriers, fled. This left most of the repair and fueling yards intact. If there hadn't been a storm the night before, the entirety of the U.S navy would be destroyed, with no way to repair it. In short, the U.S would be sitting ducks.
I would suggest looking this up on your own. It's been a little while since I researched this, so my details could be off. This is all true. If Japan is able to damage all of the repair and fueling yards, they buy a significant amount of time for themselves. It'll take longer for the US to mobilize a fleet, which could have butterflies in the New Guinea Campaign. However, I still maintain my point that all a Japanese victory does is delay their inevitable defeat. To defeat the allies, Japan would have to take India, Australia, New Zealand, and a significant chunk of Western North America (This assumes that the Germans take a significant chunk of the Eastern part). |
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 3, 2021 17:44:03 GMT
yea, I kinda messed that up. I was thinking that with the USA out of the war, the IJA wouldn't have to stuff thousands of troops in the tiny islands of the Pacific. Also, Slim's army was on it's last legs. The only reason why they won was the luck of defending in the monsoon, and William Slim's tactical genius. No, it was IJA which was having problems. Slim's army is most underrated. If it was on its last leg then how did it went all the way upto Singapore. It has very well supply system thanks to RIAF. IJA's campaign was mostly dependent on Indian soldiers rebelling when seeing Subhash Chandra Bose was on Japanese side. they didnt return to Singapore until late 1945 iirc. By then the IJA knew they were losing and were demoralised. Hell, the Battle Of Imphal happened in the summer of 1944, while Mandalay happened two months afterward. Meanwhile, across the Pacific, the Japanese were losing air base after air base to the Americans, and their carrier fleet save for Ozawa's small force was pretty much demolished at Midway. The rest of their navy was lost at the Turkey Shoot and Leyte Gulf. Slim's army knew the war was won, and were willing to live through some of the worst fighting of the war, while the IJA just lost general Terauchi, their commander of South Asian combined forces, while Tomoyuki Yamashita was still defending Manila. Morale has high effect on the performance of troops. The IJA had forces to fall back on, but felt defeated, while Slim's army was weatherbeaten, but happy. Bose's troops didnt have much effect on the British. |
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 3, 2021 17:46:00 GMT
No, it was IJA which was having problems. Slim's army is most underrated. If it was on its last leg then how did it went all the way upto Singapore. It has very well supply system thanks to RIAF. IJA's campaign was mostly dependent on Indian soldiers rebelling when seeing Subhash Chandra Bose was on Japanese side. they didnt return to Singapore until late 1945 iirc. By then the IJA knew they were losing and were demoralised. Hell, the Battle Of Imphal happened in the summer of 1944, while Mandalay happened two months afterward. Meanwhile, across the Pacific, the Japanese were losing air base after air base to the Americans, and their carrier fleet save for Ozawa's small force was pretty much demolished at Midway. The rest of their navy was lost at the Turkey Shoot and Leyte Gulf. Slim's army knew the war was won, and were willing to live through some of the worst fighting of the war, while the IJA just lost general Terauchi, their commander of South Asian combined forces, while Tomoyuki Yamashita was still defending Manila. Morale has high effect on the performance of troops. The IJA had forces to fall back on, but felt defeated, while Slim's army was weatherbeaten, but happy. Bose's troops didnt have much effect on the British. also, the RIAF was flying the most dangerous supply route of the war, and the most they could do is give them food and ammunition. |
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Post by Rodolfo Graziani on Apr 3, 2021 19:36:08 GMT
A little while after France has fallen, Stalin breaks the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and decides to invade. What are the possible scenarios that could play out?
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 3, 2021 20:31:26 GMT
A little while after France has fallen, Stalin breaks the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and decides to invade. What are the possible scenarios that could play out? this is going to be a bit hard to think about. Stalin isn't ready to invade. His armies are still terribly old fashioned after ignoring Timoshenko's urges to make tank warfare commonplace, the only real advantage he has is numbers. The Soviet conscription system is almost indestructible. Most likely it will turn into another Winter Offensive. The Germans will still have troops in Poland if France has only just fallen, and the Soviets will most likely get bogged down at the Oder River, just short of Germany's industrial heart. All they have to do is hold the line, and blitzkrieg their way to Moscow. This will most probably have little to no effect on the war except that many more lives will be lost. Especially looking at how pretty much the entire pre-war Soviet Army was wiped out at either Kiev or Smolensk. |
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 3, 2021 20:33:32 GMT
A little while after France has fallen, Stalin breaks the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and decides to invade. What are the possible scenarios that could play out? this is going to be a bit hard to think about. Stalin isn't ready to invade. His armies are still terribly old fashioned after ignoring Timoshenko's urges to make tank warfare commonplace, the only real advantage he has is numbers. The Soviet conscription system is almost indestructible. Most likely it will turn into another Winter Offensive. The Germans will still have troops in Poland if France has only just fallen, and the Soviets will most likely get bogged down at the Oder River, just short of Germany's industrial heart. All they have to do is hold the line, and blitzkrieg their way to Moscow. This will most probably have little to no effect on the war except that many more lives will be lost. Especially looking at how pretty much the entire pre-war Soviet Army was wiped out at either Kiev or Smolensk. Also looking at how the only pre-war generals that wasn't Semyon Timoshenko, myself included, still preferred Cavalry over tanks, that the Soviets won't get too far. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 4:04:37 GMT
No, it was IJA which was having problems. Slim's army is most underrated. If it was on its last leg then how did it went all the way upto Singapore. It has very well supply system thanks to RIAF. IJA's campaign was mostly dependent on Indian soldiers rebelling when seeing Subhash Chandra Bose was on Japanese side. they didnt return to Singapore until late 1945 iirc. By then the IJA knew they were losing and were demoralised. Hell, the Battle Of Imphal happened in the summer of 1944, while Mandalay happened two months afterward. Meanwhile, across the Pacific, the Japanese were losing air base after air base to the Americans, and their carrier fleet save for Ozawa's small force was pretty much demolished at Midway. The rest of their navy was lost at the Turkey Shoot and Leyte Gulf. Slim's army knew the war was won, and were willing to live through some of the worst fighting of the war, while the IJA just lost general Terauchi, their commander of South Asian combined forces, while Tomoyuki Yamashita was still defending Manila. Morale has high effect on the performance of troops. The IJA had forces to fall back on, but felt defeated, while Slim's army was weatherbeaten, but happy. Bose's troops didnt have much effect on the British. That is what I am saying that IJA has no chances of invading India. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 4:57:52 GMT
they didnt return to Singapore until late 1945 iirc. By then the IJA knew they were losing and were demoralised. Hell, the Battle Of Imphal happened in the summer of 1944, while Mandalay happened two months afterward. Meanwhile, across the Pacific, the Japanese were losing air base after air base to the Americans, and their carrier fleet save for Ozawa's small force was pretty much demolished at Midway. The rest of their navy was lost at the Turkey Shoot and Leyte Gulf. Slim's army knew the war was won, and were willing to live through some of the worst fighting of the war, while the IJA just lost general Terauchi, their commander of South Asian combined forces, while Tomoyuki Yamashita was still defending Manila. Morale has high effect on the performance of troops. The IJA had forces to fall back on, but felt defeated, while Slim's army was weatherbeaten, but happy. Bose's troops didnt have much effect on the British. also, the RIAF was flying the most dangerous supply route of the war, and the most they could do is give them food and ammunition. RIAF was used to supply his troops and biggest problem an army faces is of supply. |
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Post by Rodolfo Graziani on Apr 4, 2021 12:48:53 GMT
Instead of Barbarossa, Hitlers ultimate plan is to invade Britain.Therefore, nearly all of his resources are poured into it. How can he pull of the invasion of Britain successfully?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 12:57:48 GMT
Instead of Barbarossa, Hitlers ultimate plan is to invade Britain.Therefore, nearly all of his resources are poured into it. How can he pull of the invasion of Britain successfully? Win the aerial war which means defeat Royal Air Force. |
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 4, 2021 14:36:23 GMT
Instead of Barbarossa, Hitlers ultimate plan is to invade Britain.Therefore, nearly all of his resources are poured into it. How can he pull of the invasion of Britain successfully? Win the aerial war which means defeat Royal Air Force. even then it would be a Dieppe ten times worse. Most British troops were trained on the Channel, so all they would have to do is pick up their guns. There is also a cold sense of determination when you are defending your homeland that makes heroes out of ordinary men. Also, just because they ignored Operation Barbarossa, doesn't mean that Stalin will. The defenses in Poland will be minimal, so he can steamroll right through to Berlin with his superior numbers. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 14:44:50 GMT
Win the aerial war which means defeat Royal Air Force. even then it would be a Dieppe ten times worse. Most British troops were trained on the Channel, so all they would have to do is pick up their guns. There is also a cold sense of determination when you are defending your homeland that makes heroes out of ordinary men. Also, just because they ignored Operation Barbarossa, doesn't mean that Stalin will. The defenses in Poland will be minimal, so he can steamroll right through to Berlin with his superior numbers. Stalin did not wanted a war Germany till atleast 1943. If Germany decisively defeats RAF, then Britain will be pretty much defenseless as shown during Battle of France when Luftwaffe played important role in French Defeat by bombing allied Troops. |
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 4, 2021 14:46:31 GMT
even then it would be a Dieppe ten times worse. Most British troops were trained on the Channel, so all they would have to do is pick up their guns. There is also a cold sense of determination when you are defending your homeland that makes heroes out of ordinary men. Also, just because they ignored Operation Barbarossa, doesn't mean that Stalin will. The defenses in Poland will be minimal, so he can steamroll right through to Berlin with his superior numbers. Stalin did not wanted a war Germany till atleast 1943. If Germany decisively defeats RAF, then Britain will be pretty much defenseless as shown during Battle of France when Luftwaffe played important role in French Defeat by bombing allied Troops. all the British have to do is make Hitler mad, and he'll switch the airfields for civilian targets. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2021 14:49:37 GMT
Stalin did not wanted a war Germany till atleast 1943. If Germany decisively defeats RAF, then Britain will be pretty much defenseless as shown during Battle of France when Luftwaffe played important role in French Defeat by bombing allied Troops. all the British have to do is make Hitler mad, and he'll switch the airfields for civilian targets. You believe in oversimplified too much. |
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Post by STILETT0 on Apr 4, 2021 14:52:46 GMT
all the British have to do is make Hitler mad, and he'll switch the airfields for civilian targets. You believe in oversimplified too much. I didnt learn that from Oversimplified. The British bombed Berlin, so Hitler told Goering to bomb civilian targets the rest of the war. I don't even remember OVersimplified saying that. |
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