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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on May 12, 2021 14:07:49 GMT
How come nobody talks about him? I mean, I get his movement sucks, and Badoglio is a better buy for slightly cheaper, but people could live with two Cheap, strong, Arty Gens. He is able to do the main role of Artillery before Aliens, and that is to kill tanks. He is an L Gen, which is great. His two Secondary skills are about as good as Arty Leader. He reminds me of Graziani if Badoglio is Itagaki and Govorov is Vatutin.
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Post by idunnowhattocallthis on May 12, 2021 14:57:38 GMT
Desert fighting is one of the worse terrai skills, and you don't want your artillery general being attacked, so defensive tactic should not be used
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Post by Erich von Manstein on May 12, 2021 15:02:18 GMT
"As good as Arty Leader" is not a compliment in WC3 buddy. You have to get Guderian ASAP, then you're off to Govorov and Patton. After that, you've probably reached the aliens and Alexander's biggest perk becomes useless.
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on May 12, 2021 15:45:59 GMT
"As good as Arty Leader" is not a compliment in WC3 buddy. You have to get Guderian ASAP, then you're off to Govorov and Patton. After that, you've probably reached the aliens and Alexander's biggest perk becomes useless. Hey, a strong blow every five hits isn't bad, even if it is just normal maximum damage. But I like your other points. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on May 13, 2021 2:35:41 GMT
"As good as Arty Leader" is not a compliment in WC3 buddy. You have to get Guderian ASAP, then you're off to Govorov and Patton. After that, you've probably reached the aliens and Alexander's biggest perk becomes useless. Hey, a strong blow every five hits isn't bad, even if it is just normal maximum damage. But I like your other points. It's actually one out of six. For Alexander's price I can just buy Crerar and promote him to colonel instead. |
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Post by Luigi Sansonetti on May 13, 2021 4:25:33 GMT
How come nobody talks about him? I mean, I get his movement sucks, and Badoglio is a better buy for slightly cheaper, but people could live with two Cheap, strong, Arty Gens. He is able to do the main role of Artillery before Aliens, and that is to kill tanks. He is an L Gen, which is great. His two Secondary skills are about as good as Arty Leader. He reminds me of Graziani if Badoglio is Itagaki and Govorov is Vatutin. Because a general with artillery stars but no mobility in WC3 is not worth to be called an artillery general. Alexander is more like an anti-tank fortress. Besides, even Leeb is not recommended. And in aliens, only his 4-star artillery ability counts. There are so many fortresses in alien campaigns, so you're off to buy more generals with explosives. For a price of Alexander, I can buy Zhu D. instead with 60 medals to spare. Edit: Crear also has no mobility, but at least he punches like a 5-star artillery general, so he is an exception to the rule. |
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Post by Luigi Sansonetti on May 13, 2021 4:28:50 GMT
"As good as Arty Leader" is not a compliment in WC3 buddy. You have to get Guderian ASAP, then you're off to Govorov and Patton. After that, you've probably reached the aliens and Alexander's biggest perk becomes useless. I agree with Erich von Manstein 's stand on Leader skills. I saw your ranking Gerd von Rundstedt of Leader skills, and B rank is too high in my opinion. This is my stand: Suppose that a general with Lvl 4 Panzer Leader (16 percent chance to trigger) and no ability is deployed on a super tank. A super tank with max tech will likely have an average of 45 ATK (the median of the range 35-55). According to the Binomial Distribution Formula, the probability that this kind of skill (all Leader Skills) will trigger 16 out of 100 times and above is 54%. Most likely you will trigger this skill 16 out of 100 times. If a max tech super tank has an average of 45 ATK, a max tech super tank with a general deployed with Panzer Leader 4 will have an average of 46.6 ATK, only an increase of 1.6 ATK. It might save you a couple of times, but you better be applying the Mainstream Skills instead (explosives, plain fighting, artillery barrage/tide of iron, supply/ace forces)... In short, the Leader skill adds to little DMG to the total amount of damage a general can deal in one mission. You want to raise the average ATK given by a general? Put Plain Fighting 3 to him, and his average ATK increases by 15, around nine times what a Level 4 Leader skill can give you! We don't want to depend our victory on uncertain RNG which only guarantees little bonus damage. |
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Post by John Marston on May 13, 2021 6:13:50 GMT
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Post by Erich von Manstein on May 13, 2021 9:35:46 GMT
"As good as Arty Leader" is not a compliment in WC3 buddy. You have to get Guderian ASAP, then you're off to Govorov and Patton. After that, you've probably reached the aliens and Alexander's biggest perk becomes useless. I agree with Erich von Manstein 's stand on Leader skills. I saw your ranking Gerd von Rundstedt of Leader skills, and B rank is too high in my opinion. This is my stand: Suppose that a general with Lvl 4 Panzer Leader (16 percent chance to trigger) and no ability is deployed on a super tank. A super tank with max tech will likely have an average of 45 ATK (the median of the range 35-55). According to the Binomial Distribution Formula, the probability that this kind of skill (all Leader Skills) will trigger 16 out of 100 times and above is 54%. Most likely you will trigger this skill 16 out of 100 times. If a max tech super tank has an average of 45 ATK, a max tech super tank with a general deployed with Panzer Leader 4 will have an average of 46.6 ATK, only an increase of 1.6 ATK. It might save you a couple of times, but you better be applying the Mainstream Skills instead (explosives, plain fighting, artillery barrage/tide of iron, supply/ace forces)... In short, the Leader skill adds to little DMG to the total amount of damage a general can deal in one mission. You want to raise the average ATK given by a general? Put Plain Fighting 3 to him, and his average ATK increases by 15, around nine times what a Level 4 Leader skill can give you! We don't want to depend our victory on uncertain RNG which only guarantees little bonus damage. What? He gave leader a B??? It offers around 2.56 to average output on FA, one of the most inconsistent units. This skill is at B level only if the player is super into s/l. I'd add Leader if the ECs have like 7 or 8 skill slots. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on May 13, 2021 13:10:26 GMT
I agree with Erich von Manstein 's stand on Leader skills. I saw your ranking Gerd von Rundstedt of Leader skills, and B rank is too high in my opinion. This is my stand: Suppose that a general with Lvl 4 Panzer Leader (16 percent chance to trigger) and no ability is deployed on a super tank. A super tank with max tech will likely have an average of 45 ATK (the median of the range 35-55). According to the Binomial Distribution Formula, the probability that this kind of skill (all Leader Skills) will trigger 16 out of 100 times and above is 54%. Most likely you will trigger this skill 16 out of 100 times. If a max tech super tank has an average of 45 ATK, a max tech super tank with a general deployed with Panzer Leader 4 will have an average of 46.6 ATK, only an increase of 1.6 ATK. It might save you a couple of times, but you better be applying the Mainstream Skills instead (explosives, plain fighting, artillery barrage/tide of iron, supply/ace forces)... In short, the Leader skill adds to little DMG to the total amount of damage a general can deal in one mission. You want to raise the average ATK given by a general? Put Plain Fighting 3 to him, and his average ATK increases by 15, around nine times what a Level 4 Leader skill can give you! We don't want to depend our victory on uncertain RNG which only guarantees little bonus damage. What? He gave leader a B??? It offers around 2.56 to average output on FA, one of the most inconsistent units. This skill is at B level only if the player is super into s/l. I'd add Leader if the ECs have like 7 or 8 skill slots. I would give an EC it, although lastly, primarily because there aren't many great options. Arty Barrage, Explosives, PF, Ace Forces, then... Supply is super expensive, and Leader is not, while on an FA, it does (on average) almost as much as Guerilla. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on May 13, 2021 16:05:43 GMT
What? He gave leader a B??? It offers around 2.56 to average output on FA, one of the most inconsistent units. This skill is at B level only if the player is super into s/l. I'd add Leader if the ECs have like 7 or 8 skill slots. I would give an EC it, although lastly, primarily because there aren't many great options. Arty Barrage, Explosives, PF, Ace Forces, then... Supply is super expensive, and Leader is not, while on an FA, it does (on average) almost as much as Guerilla. and I already stated that the bonus isn't high no matter what. It increases 2.56 ON AVERAGE on FA, while Guerrilla offers 8. I don't call that "almost as much." I do agree that Supply is expensive and not quite effective in campaigns, but I'd go for Street Fighting instead. My calculation: FA has a fluctuation range of 32. Normally the average is 0.5*32 = 16. With Leader it's (0.84*0.5+0.16*1)*32=0.58*32=18.56. 18.56-16=2.56. |
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Alexander
May 13, 2021 16:30:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on May 13, 2021 16:30:55 GMT
I would give an EC it, although lastly, primarily because there aren't many great options. Arty Barrage, Explosives, PF, Ace Forces, then... Supply is super expensive, and Leader is not, while on an FA, it does (on average) almost as much as Guerilla. and I already stated that the bonus isn't high no matter what. It increases 2.56 ON AVERAGE on FA, while Guerrilla offers 8. I don't call that "almost as much." I do agree that Supply is expensive and not quite effective in campaigns, but I'd go for Street Fighting instead. My calculation: FA has a fluctuation range of 32. Normally the average is 0.5*32 = 16. With Leader it's (0.84*0.5+0.16*1)*32=0.58*32=18.56. 18.56-16=2.56. Ah, got it. I thought you were talking about leader level one. That mixes things up. Why would you choose Street Fighting, though. I should think Infantry are better city defenders, with decent health and Defense, and unlikely to be nuked. |
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Post by STILETT0 on May 13, 2021 23:25:14 GMT
Luigi Sansonetti and I already stated that the bonus isn't high no matter what. It increases 2.56 ON AVERAGE on FA, while Guerrilla offers 8. I don't call that "almost as much." I do agree that Supply is expensive and not quite effective in campaigns, but I'd go for Street Fighting instead. My calculation: FA has a fluctuation range of 32. Normally the average is 0.5*32 = 16. With Leader it's (0.84*0.5+0.16*1)*32=0.58*32=18.56. 18.56-16=2.56. Ah, got it. I thought you were talking about leader level one. That mixes things up. Why would you choose Street Fighting, though. I should think Infantry are better city defenders, with decent health and Defense, and unlikely to be nuked. Badoglio and Govorov survived my entire Italy 1960 conquest up to Chongking. Messe got nuked in the first 15 rounds, and when I deployed Guderian to break the stalemate in Ukraine, he was nuked two rounds later. imo, arty has just as much chance to get nuked as infantry. Also, Artillery is the best unit for defense. Infantry is nohwhere near as survivable. I use commandos when I need a large area dotted with armor cleared out very quickly. You are blurring the line between GoG3 and WC3. Leader skills are a completely different thing in GoG3 and are revered. Artillery defending the city proper is a no-no, because it can only recruit infantry. In this game, there is no such thing as unit stacking, and the infantry units are used as mere hit and run units and meatshields. Nobody cares much about Mannerheim, even though he is the most survivable infantry general, or Yamashita, who is unarguably the best against human units. The only time when you truly count on infantry is in the alien campaigns, where tanks and artillery are vulnerable, and that is why everyone loves Vasilevsky for the sheer output. also, Erich von Manstein why not plain fighting? It works just as well, for only a bit more. |
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Post by STILETT0 on May 13, 2021 23:33:25 GMT
How come nobody talks about him? I mean, I get his movement sucks, and Badoglio is a better buy for slightly cheaper, but people could live with two Cheap, strong, Arty Gens. He is able to do the main role of Artillery before Aliens, and that is to kill tanks. He is an L Gen, which is great. His two Secondary skills are about as good as Arty Leader. He reminds me of Graziani if Badoglio is Itagaki and Govorov is Vatutin. *spits out tea* he is underrated compared to his achievements irl, but in every other way he sucks. I used him for my human campaigns guide simply because it is nearly impossible to beat NATO 6 without a good tank killer. If you want another cheap artillery general, get Weichs. Don't get me wrong, he was extremely useful for fighting off Rommel in 1943, but there is nothing else he is good at. like Luigi Sansonetti said, you don't need defense tactic with artillery, and that skill overall is unappreciated. Lvl 1, too? Also, unless you are on a tank or infantry, terrain bonuses don't really work very well, and deserts are the hardest to find terrain hexes in the game. He is like Mountbatten in this case. His skills are all land based, but his stars are navally focused. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on May 14, 2021 1:09:29 GMT
STILETT0 Because I thought Gerd von Rundstedt was comparing Arty Leader to Guerrilla. So I talked about it from the perspective of an arty EC... I advise against building infantry EC, even if I do, it's gonna be Raider+Bayonet+PF+Explosives+Ace.
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