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Post by 6Johnny23 on Oct 10, 2021 23:16:12 GMT
Notes: My tech is Level 6 at the time of making this. Raider was included in the calculations ([76 x Damage] + [24x{Damage x 1.5}]) / 100 = Damage With Raider I used the triple stacked infantry in Maylasian Campaign (IIRC). ARTY is if you attack an artillery and the damage if they had no defense. INF is if you attack an infantry and the damage if they had no defense. TANK is if you attack a tank and the damage if they had no defense. TOTAL is if you attack every land unit once without defense and that damage number. MEAN is the average (or mean) of the TOTAL (split by 3 for reference). INF/TANK/ARTY/MEAN are all the same, I made it like that for fun. Yamashita: INF: 93.6
TANK: 93.6
ARTY: 93.6
TOTAL: 280.8
MEAN: 93.6
Rundstedt: INF: 101.184
TANK: 101.184
ARTY: 101.184
TOTAL: 303.552
MEAN: 101.184 Kuribayashi: INF: 99.232
TANK: 99.232
ARTY: 99.232
TOTAL: 297.696
MEAN: 99.232 MacArthur: INF: 113.32608
TANK: 113.32608
ARTY: 113.32608
TOTAL: 339.97824
MEAN: 113.32608
Eisenhower: INF: 101.6
TANK: 101.6
ARTY: 101.6
TOTAL: 304.8
MEAN: 101.6
Slim: INF: 87.6
TANK: 87.6
ARTY: 87.6
TOTAL: 262.8
MEAN: 87.6
Tassigny (with VR): INF: 88.6
TANK: 88.6
ARTY: 88.6
TOTAL: 265.8
MEAN: 88.6 Student (with Passion & morale boost [+5 damage]): INF: 96.6
TANK: 96.6
ARTY: 96.6
TOTAL: 289.8
MEAN: 96.6 Mannerheim: INF: 101.184
TANK: 81.6
ARTY: 81
TOTAL: 264.384
MEAN: 88.128 Bradley (w/o JF) INF: 94.984
TANK: 94.984
ARTY: 94.984
TOTAL: 284.952
MEAN: 94.984 Vasilevsky (w/ SF and CT) INF: 96.6
TANK: 96.6
ARTY: 96.6
TOTAL: 289.8
MEAN: 96.6 Malinovsky (w/ SF) INF: 88.6
TANK: 88.6
ARTY: 88.6
TOTAL: 265.8
MEAN: 88.6 |
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Post by Boss Tweed on Oct 11, 2021 2:05:12 GMT
6Johnny23, Have you tried Eisenhower theoretical damage calculation?
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Oct 11, 2021 2:13:40 GMT
6Johnny23 , Have you tried Eisenhower theoretical damage calculation? I can add that in. |
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Post by Boss Tweed on Oct 11, 2021 2:19:35 GMT
Thanks, this really cemented my opinion about infantry generals in this game. I was seriously considering buying Rundstedt because of Yamashita's lack of consistency resulting in me losing in challenges.
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Post by Lucklife on Oct 11, 2021 3:42:14 GMT
Quick question, how do you get data with no def?
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Oct 11, 2021 4:01:04 GMT
Quick question, how do you get data with no def? Refer to this thread by Erich von Manstein for the damage formula. I use the top formula for the unit attack, basically it's the backbone for all damage and provides a good guide for the fuzzy RNG lines of damage. Take a unit, apply the Formation coefficient and general skills, and that's basically the damage. For crits, I don't count the basic 5% crit rate, I only do 12%/24% crit rates added on by skills. For that, use this: ([76 x Damage] + [24x{Damage x 1.5}]) / 100 = Damage With Crit Sorry for all of the parentheses. Replace the 24 with 12 and 76 with 88 if you have the silver version insted of the gold version of the crit skill. If you want the actual damage, it also says it on the thread. I couldn't generate any basic values for the damage formula, and UA basically decides it all. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Oct 11, 2021 17:38:40 GMT
I will have to once again argue for Eisenhower Supremacy to everyone. While his base Damage WITHOUT CROWD TACTICS may be poor, when you Factor it in, he trades the same consistent damage for IL and Auras for FS. A clear win IMO, especially because he can be used by both sides.
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Oct 12, 2021 12:29:38 GMT
I will have to once again argue for Eisenhower Supremacy to everyone. While his base Damage WITHOUT CROWD TACTICS may be poor, when you Factor it in, he trades the same consistent damage for IL and Auras for FS. A clear win IMO, especially because he can be used by both sides. 1. Eisenhower is an IAP 2. Leader skills form HT generals and we have established that Roko and Monty are better than Vatutin's consistency. 3. Kuribayashi only does 2 damage less and is 615 medals. Eisenhower is not worth it. 4. Only does 1 more damage than Rundstedt rounded up, still worse because of the lack of a defensive skill. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Oct 12, 2021 17:32:03 GMT
I will have to once again argue for Eisenhower Supremacy to everyone. While his base Damage WITHOUT CROWD TACTICS may be poor, when you Factor it in, he trades the same consistent damage for IL and Auras for FS. A clear win IMO, especially because he can be used by both sides. 1. Eisenhower is an IAP 2. Leader skills form HT generals and we have established that Roko and Monty are better than Vatutin's consistency. 3. Kuribayashi only does 2 damage less and is 615 medals. Eisenhower is not worth it. 4. Only does 1 more damage than Rundstedt rounded up, still worse because of the lack of a defensive skill. 1. That is fair, but this does not take price into account. 2. I agree completely, but when the Base Damage is the same (or better) as Leader skill damage, I will personally take the consistent damage. 3. Again, you do not take CT, a VERY easy to proc skill into account. Ike will do +12, a marked increase, especially considering his Auras. 4. I would Argue that on a general like Eisenhower, two Auras and +11 damage is perfectly sufficient for the lack of a defensive skill. |
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Oct 13, 2021 12:36:55 GMT
1. Eisenhower is an IAP 2. Leader skills form HT generals and we have established that Roko and Monty are better than Vatutin's consistency. 3. Kuribayashi only does 2 damage less and is 615 medals. Eisenhower is not worth it. 4. Only does 1 more damage than Rundstedt rounded up, still worse because of the lack of a defensive skill. 1. That is fair, but this does not take price into account. 2. I agree completely, but when the Base Damage is the same (or better) as Leader skill damage, I will personally take the consistent damage. 3. Again, you do not take CT, a VERY easy to proc skill into account. Ike will do +12, a marked increase, especially considering his Auras. 4. I would Argue that on a general like Eisenhower, two Auras and +11 damage is perfectly sufficient for the lack of a defensive skill. 1. Fair. 2. This takes in the Leader skill with this formula: 1.24 x Damage = Leader Damage. 3. This uses 3 stacks, and 4 stacks would be about the same. Eisenhower would just have less damage than MacArthur, but more than Rundstedt. 4. Inspiration is a bad aura. +10 damage is only for when you have 4 stacks, unless you have a defensive skill, or are preserving HP on Eisenhower by removing him from the front, he will lose the CT buff sooner or later. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Oct 13, 2021 17:28:00 GMT
1. That is fair, but this does not take price into account. 2. I agree completely, but when the Base Damage is the same (or better) as Leader skill damage, I will personally take the consistent damage. 3. Again, you do not take CT, a VERY easy to proc skill into account. Ike will do +12, a marked increase, especially considering his Auras. 4. I would Argue that on a general like Eisenhower, two Auras and +11 damage is perfectly sufficient for the lack of a defensive skill. 1. Fair. 2. This takes in the Leader skill with this formula: 1.24 x Damage = Leader Damage. 3. This uses 3 stacks, and 4 stacks would be about the same. Eisenhower would just have less damage than MacArthur, but more than Rundstedt. 4. Inspiration is a bad aura. +10 damage is only for when you have 4 stacks, unless you have a defensive skill, or are preserving HP on Eisenhower by removing him from the front, he will lose the CT buff sooner or later. 2. Okay, but if CT procs, Ike will have Higher damage. 3. That is true, but seriously, CT is way easy to proc. 4. Ike can work behind the lines as an aura when he replenishes, but he is fast, so he can get to the front easily. |
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Oct 14, 2021 12:08:12 GMT
1. Fair. 2. This takes in the Leader skill with this formula: 1.24 x Damage = Leader Damage. 3. This uses 3 stacks, and 4 stacks would be about the same. Eisenhower would just have less damage than MacArthur, but more than Rundstedt. 4. Inspiration is a bad aura. +10 damage is only for when you have 4 stacks, unless you have a defensive skill, or are preserving HP on Eisenhower by removing him from the front, he will lose the CT buff sooner or later. 2. Okay, but if CT procs, Ike will have Higher damage. 3. That is true, but seriously, CT is way easy to proc. 4. Ike can work behind the lines as an aura when he replenishes, but he is fast, so he can get to the front easily. 2. CT will not activate because Eisenhower is fragile. 3. CT is easy to activate, but it is also easy to lose. 4. Then you are losing his damage if you use him as an aura. When he replenishes, you will either have other generals or don't have enough time. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Oct 18, 2021 17:38:27 GMT
2. Okay, but if CT procs, Ike will have Higher damage. 3. That is true, but seriously, CT is way easy to proc. 4. Ike can work behind the lines as an aura when he replenishes, but he is fast, so he can get to the front easily. 2. CT will not activate because Eisenhower is fragile. 3. CT is easy to activate, but it is also easy to lose. 4. Then you are losing his damage if you use him as an aura. When he replenishes, you will either have other generals or don't have enough time. 2. He is not so fragile. Certainly very cheap to recruit new stacks for... 3. Not really. When you have decent support from other units it is reasonable to expect low damage being taken. 4. That is true, but I would prefer an Ike that has to be behind the lines for a turn or so to one that is dead. You never don't have enough time (except for Phoenix) and you always have other generals. That doesn't make an OP general obsolete. |
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Post by 6Johnny23 on Oct 19, 2021 12:48:33 GMT
2. CT will not activate because Eisenhower is fragile. 3. CT is easy to activate, but it is also easy to lose. 4. Then you are losing his damage if you use him as an aura. When he replenishes, you will either have other generals or don't have enough time. 2. He is not so fragile. Certainly very cheap to recruit new stacks for... 3. Not really. When you have decent support from other units it is reasonable to expect low damage being taken. 4. That is true, but I would prefer an Ike that has to be behind the lines for a turn or so to one that is dead. You never don't have enough time (except for Phoenix) and you always have other generals. That doesn't make an OP general obsolete. 2. Then you might as well stay in a city or shield him from everything. 3. Fair enough. 4. Eisenhower has crazy damage. More than Rundstedt, more than Kuribayashi, more than Yamashita. You are using the safe option where you lose that damage. Your front line will be moving forward while he replenishes in the back (if there is no guarantee of safety in a front city), he will be lagging behind. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Oct 19, 2021 17:35:29 GMT
2. He is not so fragile. Certainly very cheap to recruit new stacks for... 3. Not really. When you have decent support from other units it is reasonable to expect low damage being taken. 4. That is true, but I would prefer an Ike that has to be behind the lines for a turn or so to one that is dead. You never don't have enough time (except for Phoenix) and you always have other generals. That doesn't make an OP general obsolete. 2. Then you might as well stay in a city or shield him from everything. 3. Fair enough. 4. Eisenhower has crazy damage. More than Rundstedt, more than Kuribayashi, more than Yamashita. You are using the safe option where you lose that damage. Your front line will be moving forward while he replenishes in the back (if there is no guarantee of safety in a front city), he will be lagging behind. 2. I am not saying that generals should not fight. Far from it! But a general can choose the battlefield better than other units due to speed and better survivability, and cities are common battlefields, so that ability lets them be in positions other units may not be able to be in. 4. I agree, but we have to remember, every gen will need replenishing anyway, and Ike's Crazy damage is every turn, unlike Rundstedt or MacArthur's. In addition, he does have 3 stars movement and likely an SF, so it can't be that hard (as Overlord shows us) for him to get back to the front. |
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