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Post by blueberry on Jan 30, 2022 11:57:15 GMT
stoic, does the Legendary faction initiate failed offensives to repeatedly storm certain positions or destroy "weak" player troops? I'm still trying to see what "motivates" the AIs to attack and how to predict what attacks the AIs may use. From what I remember, that faction behaves just like normal nations in all conquests: when they target a city, they keep attacking it every turn or so until they take it (or until you conquer the cities where the attacks originate), AI is very stubborn in that. In the US conquest I did, for instance, after taking Toronto at the beginning, they kept attacking Toronto from Winnipeg almost every turn (my generals took other directions). |
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Post by blueberry on Jan 30, 2022 12:14:33 GMT
My first Ragnarok ever... 38 turns. I don't know, maybe USA has such a great strategic position, but all in all it went very smoothly right from the start. stoic , would you mind to elaborate a little bit on your strategy? For me it was also my first Ragnarok and I won with USA in 45 turns last weekend. My team is a little weaker but I could advance on 3 fronts each turn. Probably a little to shy in the beginning, but I didn't spend much time healing or building up forces. Saving ~10 turns translates to 1-2 hours for me (thinking of 1* and 2* clears), so improvements are appreciated  I wrote a couple of things here: european-war-4.boards.net/post/322242/threadI agree with stoic's advice, you have to push at the beginning. |
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Post by stoic on Jan 30, 2022 12:18:53 GMT
stoic, does the Legendary faction initiate failed offensives to repeatedly storm certain positions or destroy "weak" player troops? I'm still trying to see what "motivates" the AIs to attack and how to predict what attacks the AIs may use. One thing is certain: if AI has two full armies in neighborhood - the attack is inevitable. Otherwise I don't find AI's behaviour very reasonable. I have many cities unprotected, yet it doesn't attack them even if it is a predictable and easy victory. My thought is that AI in EW6 is rather defensive-minded. It cares more about keeping cities rather than taking them. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Jan 30, 2022 13:24:37 GMT
stoic, does the Legendary faction initiate failed offensives to repeatedly storm certain positions or destroy "weak" player troops? I'm still trying to see what "motivates" the AIs to attack and how to predict what attacks the AIs may use. One thing is certain: if AI has two full armies in neighborhood - the attack is inevitable. Otherwise I don't find AI's behaviour very reasonable. I have many cities unprotected, yet it doesn't attack them even if it is a predictable and easy victory. My thought is that AI in EW6 is rather defensive-minded. It cares more about keeping cities rather than taking them. Rather odd, given that numerous human cities are under such pressure, but the Legendary forces refuse to march. I was hoping to lure them into Beijing and smash three armies at once using my best, but their refusal to budge forced me to strike at them individually. |
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Post by jonblend on Jan 30, 2022 14:27:38 GMT
One thing is certain: if AI has two full armies in neighborhood - the attack is inevitable. Otherwise I don't find AI's behaviour very reasonable. I have many cities unprotected, yet it doesn't attack them even if it is a predictable and easy victory. My thought is that AI in EW6 is rather defensive-minded. It cares more about keeping cities rather than taking them. Rather odd, given that numerous human cities are under such pressure, but the Legendary forces refuse to march. I was hoping to lure them into Beijing and smash three armies at once using my best, but their refusal to budge forced me to strike at them individually. When I played as USA, Germany was rather aggressive. They took Paris which prompted the French to move their capital to Carthage. This city was already exchanging blows with the Legendary so the French were wiped on the next turn. Germany also took London, causing the British to set their capital next to Lima. Also, Japan was actively fighting against the monsters, sinking one ship containing at least one wolf. IIRC, the Legendary forces never attacked me unprovoked, but they try to retake their cities if they have strong units nearby.
blueberry, thanks for the additional info, I was definitely chasing them around too much and will try to defeat the Legendaries at Omsk the next time. Is there a way to see the amount of cites and units during Ragnarok? (there is no pigeon/diplomacy button) |
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Post by blueberry on Jan 30, 2022 14:37:38 GMT
Rather odd, given that numerous human cities are under such pressure, but the Legendary forces refuse to march. I was hoping to lure them into Beijing and smash three armies at once using my best, but their refusal to budge forced me to strike at them individually. When I played as USA, Germany was rather aggressive. They took Paris which prompted the French to move their capital to Carthage. This city was already exchanging blows with the Legendary so the French were wiped on the next turn. Germany also took London, causing the British to set their capital next to Lima. Also, Japan was actively fighting against the monsters, sinking one ship containing at least one wolf. IIRC, the Legendary forces never attacked me unprovoked, but they try to retake their cities if they have strong units nearby.
blueberry, thanks for the additional info, I was definitely chasing them around too much and will try to defeat the Legendaries at Omsk the next time. Is there a way to see the amount of cites and units during Ragnarok? (there is no pigeon/diplomacy button) If you exit the conquest, the autosave shows how many cities and units you have. For other nations and the ragnarok faction, you have to count. |
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Post by jonblend on Feb 10, 2022 8:30:26 GMT
Here I am planning to beat it as 1* country today. Austria has good rewards and, what is also important, 3 taverns, so, that we can create 3 teams of generals immediately. Austria has too many troops. Therefore it is better to free some space and take Venice. I think that Mocte (the only one healer I have) should go with the weakest team, so that all of my generals had full health at the end of the battle. After 3 teams start their movement into different directions it is already a strategically won position, as they say in chess. Beat this yesterday  with 33 turns using your and blueberry 's tips. With this being my second Ragnarok conquest, I got a better sense of how much is needed to defeat the groups of special units and was able to form 3.5 teams with better synergy. The "half" team did most of eastern Russia and set up camp next to Omsk. Attempted Omsk with 130 cities in my possession, but they relocated to Seoul which was where it ended (135 to 140 cities). |
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Post by jonblend on Feb 14, 2022 13:34:00 GMT
Aand , with more streamlining, I was able to carve out a full 4th team so that I won with Egypt in 29 turns. Killing blow to the Legendary faction was dealt at Omsk when they had 13 cities left (I had 133 and Arabia had 4). |
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Post by blueberry on Feb 14, 2022 16:29:29 GMT
Aand , with more streamlining, I was able to carve out a full 4th team so that I won with Egypt in 29 turns. Killing blow to the Legendary faction was dealt at Omsk when they had 13 cities left (I had 133 and Arabia had 4). Very fast! I think that the biggest countries (including legendary faction) surrender at 20 cities or less. In Classical Age it could be different though: in my first attempt to win as Carthage in 11 turns, China didn't surrender when they were the last country left and had only 14 cities (including the capital). In my second attempt, I conquered two more cities and they surrendered. |
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Post by jonblend on Feb 14, 2022 19:06:21 GMT
Aand , with more streamlining, I was able to carve out a full 4th team so that I won with Egypt in 29 turns. Killing blow to the Legendary faction was dealt at Omsk when they had 13 cities left (I had 133 and Arabia had 4). Very fast! I think that the biggest countries (including legendary faction) surrender at 20 cities or less. In Classical Age it could be different though: in my first attempt to win as Carthage in 11 turns, China didn't surrender when they were the last country left and had only 14 cities (including the capital). In my second attempt, I conquered two more cities and they surrendered. Yeah I was surprised too and thought they would move to Baghdad which was their last lv11 city and was on my path to Medina. Before we blame it on RNG, maybe it's the [our cities/their cities] ratio.
133/13=10.23 for Egypt worked while 130/20=6.5 didn't work for Austria at Ragnarok
(103-12)/12=7.58 and (103-14)/14=6.36 for your classical age runs. |
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Post by blueberry on Feb 14, 2022 19:18:59 GMT
Very fast! I think that the biggest countries (including legendary faction) surrender at 20 cities or less. In Classical Age it could be different though: in my first attempt to win as Carthage in 11 turns, China didn't surrender when they were the last country left and had only 14 cities (including the capital). In my second attempt, I conquered two more cities and they surrendered. Yeah I was surprised too and thought they would move to Baghdad which was their last lv11 city and was on my path to Medina. Before we blame it on RNG, maybe it's the [our cities/their cities] ratio.
133/13=10.23 for Egypt worked while 130/20=6.5 didn't work for Austria at Ragnarok
(103-12)/12=7.58 and (103-14)/14=6.36 for your classical age runs. Seems like we always need to have at least 7 times more cities than the enemy, then. Quite a lot, especially at the beginning of a conquest. |
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Post by jonblend on Feb 14, 2022 20:48:45 GMT
Yeah I was surprised too and thought they would move to Baghdad which was their last lv11 city and was on my path to Medina. Before we blame it on RNG, maybe it's the [our cities/their cities] ratio.
133/13=10.23 for Egypt worked while 130/20=6.5 didn't work for Austria at Ragnarok
(103-12)/12=7.58 and (103-14)/14=6.36 for your classical age runs. Seems like we always need to have at least 7 times more cities than the enemy, then. Quite a lot, especially at the beginning of a conquest. Well, so far it's only a weak theory. I think that the city we just conquered should also be included because the 'perished'/'capital moved' status seems to be decided after the battle and I looked at the city count before moving to the city. (11.17 and 6.89 for the Ragnarok ratios then). Out of sheer curiosity, I'd be interested in some of the "perishing" in the beginning of a conquest but I'm not going to touch the conquest button anytime soon and would feel really bad to ask something similar of you But who knows what will be the next challenge that you throw yourself against. |
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Post by blueberry on Feb 15, 2022 8:21:19 GMT
Seems like we always need to have at least 7 times more cities than the enemy, then. Quite a lot, especially at the beginning of a conquest. Well, so far it's only a weak theory. I think that the city we just conquered should also be included because the 'perished'/'capital moved' status seems to be decided after the battle and I looked at the city count before moving to the city. (11.17 and 6.89 for the Ragnarok ratios then). Out of sheer curiosity, I'd be interested in some of the "perishing" in the beginning of a conquest but I'm not going to touch the conquest button anytime soon and would feel really bad to ask something similar of you But who knows what will be the next challenge that you throw yourself against. I think I'll do a conquest this evening and i'll see if the theory holds up. |
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Post by blueberry on Feb 16, 2022 20:49:09 GMT
jonblendI didn't play a full conquest, I played some rounds to see how many cities you need to have to defeat countries with respectively 2, 3, 4 cities left (capital included) for every conquest (except Ragnarok). I obviously tried to defeat them while having one less city. If I didn't make some blunder like confusing a 3 for an 8 , these are the results. Classical age (103 cities in total) 2 cities left: 9 cities necessary 3: 18 4: 27 5: 36 Medieval age (126) 2: 8 3: 16 4: 24 5: 33 Empire age (129) 2: 7 3: 15 4: 23 5: 30 Discovery age (145) 2: 7 3: 14 4: 21 Gunpowder age (150) 2: 6 3: 13 4: 19 Industrial age (150) 2: 6 3: 12 4: 18 For some I checked also at 5 cities left, but it was too boring to do them for every age. And it would have been even more boring to check at 6. I used variously ranked countries (1, 2 or 3 stars) against variously ranked countries, so that shouldn't be relevant. Anyway, the progression is a bit strange. Maybe it's not a matter of the number of cities out of the total number of cities on the map, maybe there are just fixed thresholds for every age.
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Post by jonblend on Feb 17, 2022 20:04:44 GMT
well done, blueberry  fixed ratios would be indeed the best explanation. And the numbers that don't fit could be explained with round down. Something like 8.25 for medieval, 7.7 for empire, 6.6 for gunpowder. Anyways, your findings show that there seems to be a pattern (even if we don't have the exact formula etc) rather than a threshold with rng on top which (based on earlier posts about EW5 conquest) I believed until a few days ago. |
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with 33 turns using your and 
fixed ratios would be indeed the best explanation. And the numbers that don't fit could be explained with round down. Something like 8.25 for medieval, 7.7 for empire, 6.6 for gunpowder. 
