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Post by andrei on Feb 21, 2022 23:58:50 GMT
When I look at tactical skills of the units there are some affecting the whole legion.
Isn't it better to use different units in some cases instead of 3 same units?
Let's take Harald Hardrada. Is it better to put 2 Varangian guards + 1 Nordic Heavy axeman to benefit from additional skill (Roar) for the whole legion instead of using 3 guards.
Is there any mechanic for same unit in the legion? I suppose it is fine as both units are of the same type.
PS: I am not taking into account that upgrade price of the legion will be higher in this case. The price is another question as usual.
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Post by Thortilla on Feb 22, 2022 0:13:58 GMT
Yes you can mix units for example Alfred the Great is better if you give him a Counter Infantry. With 2 Calvary units
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Post by torvestareborn on Feb 22, 2022 0:23:12 GMT
When I look at tactical skills of the units there are some affecting the whole legion. Isn't it better to use different units in some cases instead of 3 same units? Let's take Harald Hardrada. Is it better to put 2 Varangian guards + 1 Nordic Heavy axeman to benefit from additional skill (Roar) for the whole legion instead of using 3 guards. Is there any mechanic for same unit in the legion? I suppose it is fine as both units are of the same type. PS: I am not taking into account that upgrade price of the legion will be higher in this case. The price is another question as usual. Roar skill is complete garbage. Whats the point of lowering the enemy moral when you are going to kill them with 1 hit if you charge using harald (varangian has 25% more chance to charge than nordic viking), or not kill but greatly hurt the enemy units. Moral affects damage output and a severely weakened enemy units will do low damage anyway. Regarding legion effect, it applies to any units. It doesn't have to be the same type. that roar skill can work with archer units when they attack. |
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Post by SolidLight on Feb 22, 2022 0:33:56 GMT
Sometimes. Alfred with one counter infantry can work pretty well if you do need his noble cav protected since he’s still pretty good with those and can get massive damage reduction. But you’re still losing out on another stack that benefits from his 30% damage boost and has charge on itself. So most of the times probably no.
I’d say never do that in your example though. Morale debuffs seem very underwhelming to me since most of the time the main way to deal morale damage is to simply hit something as hard as possible. Which leaves them too crippled anyway to have that morale debuff matter. And Varangian Guards have better charge so they’ll kill stuff better anyway.
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Post by andrei on Feb 22, 2022 0:36:08 GMT
When I look at tactical skills of the units there are some affecting the whole legion. Isn't it better to use different units in some cases instead of 3 same units? Let's take Harald Hardrada. Is it better to put 2 Varangian guards + 1 Nordic Heavy axeman to benefit from additional skill (Roar) for the whole legion instead of using 3 guards. Is there any mechanic for same unit in the legion? I suppose it is fine as both units are of the same type. PS: I am not taking into account that upgrade price of the legion will be higher in this case. The price is another question as usual. Roar skill is complete garbage. Whats the point of lowering the enemy moral when you are going to kill them with 1 hit if you charge using harald (varangian has 25% more chance to charge than nordic viking), or not kill but greatly hurt the enemy units. Moral affects damage output and a severely weakened enemy units will do low damage anyway. Regarding legion effect, it applies to any units. It doesn't have to be the same type. that roar skill can work with archer units when they attack. What is complete "garbage" now could be useful late game who knows. In EW5 at some point Artifacts were not important as it was overkill. At some point update introduced enemies with 20 times more HP if compared to Your units. The question was not about whether Roar is garbage or not. The question was: will such mixing give me additional skill for the whole legion without any disadvantage or not. The "charge chance" reason is not convincing as against strong enemies we will anyway use Outburst skill. |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Feb 22, 2022 0:55:06 GMT
I am enjoying mixing units for my generals. I just got to Viking Invasion with Saladin, Belisarius, Olga, Attila, and Aetius as pretty much the only gens I use. I think that the "legion effect" as well as the fact that many generals are perfectly competent among many different units really helps make the case for multiple types of units, even if they do lose out on a significant damage buff.
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Post by andrei on Feb 22, 2022 0:58:06 GMT
I am enjoying mixing units for my generals. I just got to Viking Invasion with Saladin, Belisarius, Olga, Attila, and Aetius as pretty much the only gens I use. I think that the "legion effect" as well as the fact that many generals are perfectly competent among many different units really helps make the case for multiple types of units, even if they do lose out on a significant damage buff. I wasn't asking about preferences but real benefit of additional skill without losing damage. I understand Your point  But I am afraid this approach won't work in the end game |
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Feb 22, 2022 0:59:58 GMT
I am enjoying mixing units for my generals. I just got to Viking Invasion with Saladin, Belisarius, Olga, Attila, and Aetius as pretty much the only gens I use. I think that the "legion effect" as well as the fact that many generals are perfectly competent among many different units really helps make the case for multiple types of units, even if they do lose out on a significant damage buff. I wasn't asking about preferences but real benefit of additional skill without losing damage. I understand Your point But I am afraid this approach won't work in the end game In addition, the generals (like Basil) that don't have an item don't lose out on that damage buff, making them potentially more versatile. |
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Post by torvestareborn on Feb 22, 2022 18:52:27 GMT
Sometimes. Alfred with one counter infantry can work pretty well if you do need his noble cav protected since he’s still pretty good with those and can get massive damage reduction. But you’re still losing out on another stack that benefits from his 30% damage boost and has charge on itself. So most of the times probably no. I’d say never do that in your example though. Morale debuffs seem very underwhelming to me since most of the time the main way to deal morale damage is to simply hit something as hard as possible. Which leaves them too crippled anyway to have that morale debuff matter. And Varangian Guards have better charge so they’ll kill stuff better anyway. yea i like to put a counter inf in front of cavs to protect too, he has the skill for it so why not. Also any unit in the group can get the 30% damage boost as long as there is atleast 1 unit specific to that item. |
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Post by SolidLight on Feb 22, 2022 19:11:35 GMT
Sometimes. Alfred with one counter infantry can work pretty well if you do need his noble cav protected since he’s still pretty good with those and can get massive damage reduction. But you’re still losing out on another stack that benefits from his 30% damage boost and has charge on itself. So most of the times probably no. I’d say never do that in your example though. Morale debuffs seem very underwhelming to me since most of the time the main way to deal morale damage is to simply hit something as hard as possible. Which leaves them too crippled anyway to have that morale debuff matter. And Varangian Guards have better charge so they’ll kill stuff better anyway. yea i like to put a counter inf in front of cavs to protect too, he has the skill for it so why not. Also any unit in the group can get the 30% damage boost as long as there is atleast 1 unit specific to that item. Really? The counter inf gets the 30% extra damage? Interesting. |
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Post by torvestareborn on Feb 22, 2022 19:17:07 GMT
yea i like to put a counter inf in front of cavs to protect too, he has the skill for it so why not. Also any unit in the group can get the 30% damage boost as long as there is atleast 1 unit specific to that item. Really? The counter inf gets the 30% extra damage? Interesting. yea it was updated like 3 weeks ago, i only knew about it a week and a half ago tho, so i was surprised too, i don't like the update because it makes most units useless because you just mix them with 2 of the best units. |
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Post by Rousseau :) on Feb 22, 2022 19:25:24 GMT
Sometimes. Alfred with one counter infantry can work pretty well if you do need his noble cav protected since he’s still pretty good with those and can get massive damage reduction. But you’re still losing out on another stack that benefits from his 30% damage boost and has charge on itself. So most of the times probably no. I’d say never do that in your example though. Morale debuffs seem very underwhelming to me since most of the time the main way to deal morale damage is to simply hit something as hard as possible. Which leaves them too crippled anyway to have that morale debuff matter. And Varangian Guards have better charge so they’ll kill stuff better anyway. yea i like to put a counter inf in front of cavs to protect too, he has the skill for it so why not. Also any unit in the group can get the 30% damage boost as long as there is atleast 1 unit specific to that item. I just tested this and it did not affect the damage of the other units. You can verify this by looking at the headquarters unit damage and then looking at their damage on the field. The extra 10% or 30% is only applied when the general is actually deployed. It seems like the general skill %, like sword master, do not work like this though. They apply the damage increase in headquarters and in the field. I tested using charlemagne with two of his hospilatier cavalry and one counter infantry. The hospilatier’s damage went up on deployment and the counter did not. |
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Post by torvestareborn on Feb 22, 2022 19:48:29 GMT
yea i like to put a counter inf in front of cavs to protect too, he has the skill for it so why not. Also any unit in the group can get the 30% damage boost as long as there is atleast 1 unit specific to that item. I just tested this and it did not affect the damage of the other units. You can verify this by looking at the headquarters unit damage and then looking at their damage on the field. The extra 10% or 30% is only applied when the general is actually deployed. It seems like the general skill %, like sword master, do not work like this though. They apply the damage increase in headquarters and in the field. I tested using charlemagne with two of his hospilatier cavalry and one counter infantry. The hospilatier’s damage went up on deployment and the counter did not. i don't really understand what you are saying, i know that units in headquarter are not affected by % damage increase, only by general points. The 30% damage from items applies to all units in a group, not just the specific unit, you can have a look at the update in news section of home page. |
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Post by jjrousseau on Feb 22, 2022 20:39:07 GMT
I don’t know how to send pictures, so I’ll list their damage. Charlemagne with special equipment at level 10 In headquarters: Heavy phalanx level 6: 124-156 Knights Hospitalier level 1: 175-198 Deployed: Heavy phalanx level 6: 124-156 Knights Hospitalier level 1: 191-214 Charlemagne without equipment In headquarters: Heavy phalanx level 6: 124-156 Knights Hospitalier level 1: 159-182 Deployed: Heavy phalanx level 6: 124-156 Knights Hospitalier level 1: 159-182 Unless I am missing something, this indicates to me that the special equipment’s 10 and 30 percent damage increase is specific to the unit and does not affect the other units in the legion. Thats all |
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Post by torvestareborn on Feb 23, 2022 18:27:11 GMT
I don’t know how to send pictures, so I’ll list their damage. Charlemagne with special equipment at level 10 In headquarters: Heavy phalanx level 6: 124-156 Knights Hospitalier level 1: 175-198 Deployed: Heavy phalanx level 6: 124-156 Knights Hospitalier level 1: 191-214 Charlemagne without equipment In headquarters: Heavy phalanx level 6: 124-156 Knights Hospitalier level 1: 159-182 Deployed: Heavy phalanx level 6: 124-156 Knights Hospitalier level 1: 159-182 Unless I am missing something, this indicates to me that the special equipment’s 10 and 30 percent damage increase is specific to the unit and does not affect the other units in the legion. Thats all  it applies to all units, look at this update (first line):  |
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But I am afraid this approach won't work in the end game 
