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Post by andrei on Mar 31, 2022 20:52:13 GMT
randomperson , Instead million of words. I've taken favorable for Templars situation. Not even discuss survivability. Only damage per turn during player's phase. Attack against legion protected against archers and move into plain before the attack, so Templars could have at least 2 attacks. And compared against Atilla's Archer legion. Even in this situation Atilla will have additional attack and will easily outperform Richard with full Templar squad.      I agree that only looking at offence is favourable for Templars, but situation shown is not very balanced. I cannot see how much damage Attila did to the non-city units so I'm just going to look at the city units for now. We're comparing lvl 11 and 13 with lvl 5 templars. Also, the templars did not get to charge which is huge. Ofc the templars get some other advantages like there being 3 of them and the enemy units being lower tier, but the templars not charging is 3x damage. All you would need to do is poke the enemy city once with a weak unit and then you can suddenly do 3 times damage to the units inside. Screen didn't catch the damage to first unit. But it was overkill. Templars didn't charge? What do You mean? 2 Templars charged. If You mean while attacking the city.. they can't. They need to crush the ramparts first. And yes, Templars are lower levels, but these are not Mamluks+Mongolians as well. These are low tier Woad+Ravenna  And You are right. It is not balanced. Normally when Templars can attack twice, Atilla with this units setup can attack 4 times not 3, so yes, it was balanced in favor of Templars  |
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Post by randomperson on Mar 31, 2022 21:51:17 GMT
I agree that only looking at offence is favourable for Templars, but situation shown is not very balanced. I cannot see how much damage Attila did to the non-city units so I'm just going to look at the city units for now. We're comparing lvl 11 and 13 with lvl 5 templars. Also, the templars did not get to charge which is huge. Ofc the templars get some other advantages like there being 3 of them and the enemy units being lower tier, but the templars not charging is 3x damage. All you would need to do is poke the enemy city once with a weak unit and then you can suddenly do 3 times damage to the units inside. Screen didn't catch the damage to first unit. But it was overkill. Templars didn't charge? What do You mean? 2 Templars charged. If You mean while attacking the city.. they can't. They need to crush the ramparts first. And yes, Templars are lower levels, but these are not Mamluks+Mongolians as well. These are low tier Woad+Ravenna And You are right. It is not balanced. Normally when Templars can attack twice, Atilla with this units setup can attack 4 times not 3, so yes, it was balanced in favor of Templars Units can charge against the city before the ramparts are fully destroyed. As long as you do even just 1 damage to the wall with a weak unit you can charge. |
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Post by andrei on Mar 31, 2022 21:58:37 GMT
Screen didn't catch the damage to first unit. But it was overkill. Templars didn't charge? What do You mean? 2 Templars charged. If You mean while attacking the city.. they can't. They need to crush the ramparts first. And yes, Templars are lower levels, but these are not Mamluks+Mongolians as well. These are low tier Woad+Ravenna And You are right. It is not balanced. Normally when Templars can attack twice, Atilla with this units setup can attack 4 times not 3, so yes, it was balanced in favor of Templars Units can charge against the city before the ramparts are fully destroyed. As long as you do even just 1 damage to the wall with a weak unit you can charge. Ok, I see, You are too stubborn to accept any reason. Can You show at least one situation when Richard is better than Archer general with Rapid March (in case You don't have Atilla or Robin)? So we can compare it from Your point of view not theoretically but in real fight on practice. I proposed most favorable situation for Richard (didn't even proposed support from desprate wager for both Richard and Attila which makes Richard situation laughable) - move on to the plain tile and 2 attacks. I can provide attacks without movement comparison. But it will be even worse for Richard. Can You support Your words with something solid? |
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Post by randomperson on Mar 31, 2022 22:41:01 GMT
Units can charge against the city before the ramparts are fully destroyed. As long as you do even just 1 damage to the wall with a weak unit you can charge. Ok, I see, You are too stubborn to accept any reason. Can You show at least one situation when Richard is better than Archer general with Rapid March (in case You don't have Atilla or Robin)? So we can compare it from Your point of view not theoretically but in real fight on practice. I proposed most favorable situation for Richard (didn't even proposed support from desprate wager for both Richard and Attila which makes Richard situation laughable) - move on to the plain tile and 2 attacks. I can provide attacks without movement comparison. But it will be even worse for Richard. Can You support Your words with something solid? Ok, I used Simeon for outburst to simulate guaranteed charge, and Aetius because he has forced march. I also took off all the items to make them equal (24 archer capability on attics, 24 archer capability on Simeon). I attacked 2 melee cav+1 infantry to make it fair because archers have bonus against melee calvary while charge cav has bonus against melee infantry. Also, all units are lvl 0 and comparable (tier 3 charge cav, tier 4 counter infantry, tier 4 melee infantry, tier 2&4 ranged infantry).       As you can see, the calvary out damaged the archers by slightly more than 2 times in one attack. If we count it as 2 calvary attacks and 4 archer attacks, the calvary do ~20% more damage. However, this is quite a bit less than I thought it would be, and because of the archers higher utility, I concede that mamluks are overall better than templars. So, you win  . |
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Post by Erich on Apr 1, 2022 2:23:29 GMT
Comparing Templars and Mamluks is like comparing Critical Attack and many Normal Attacks. The role of Charge, I think, is a replacement of Critical Attack. Which better? It’s hard to say, use it the right moment and things done, that’s the best of ET’s games
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Post by stoic on Apr 1, 2022 3:08:04 GMT
I assume Dragoons will be the hardest hitting unit and they can be used in different archer compositions too (they march through forests and their basic speed is solid). If I understand the description of the Sniper correctly, they always (that means counterattack too, right?) will deal the highest possible damage (not sure about "humid conditions", probably heat or snow). They have bonus against two unit types and additionally ignore 20 percent of defense. At least on paper all this looks interesting.
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Post by randomperson on Apr 1, 2022 4:27:19 GMT
I assume Dragoons will be the hardest hitting unit and they can be used in different archer compositions too (they march through forests and their basic speed is solid). If I understand the description of the Sniper correctly, they always (that means counterattack too, right?) will deal the highest possible damage (not sure about "humid conditions", probably heat or snow). They have bonus against two unit types and additionally ignore 20 percent of defense. At least on paper all this looks interesting. Relating to this, how does heat/snow work? I can't seem to find anything other than "negative effects". Also, the last campaign chapter is the war of the roses so I'm assuming we won't have to worry about heat/snow there |
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Post by stoic on Apr 1, 2022 4:41:13 GMT
I assume Dragoons will be the hardest hitting unit and they can be used in different archer compositions too (they march through forests and their basic speed is solid). If I understand the description of the Sniper correctly, they always (that means counterattack too, right?) will deal the highest possible damage (not sure about "humid conditions", probably heat or snow). They have bonus against two unit types and additionally ignore 20 percent of defense. At least on paper all this looks interesting. Relating to this, how does heat/snow work? I can't seem to find anything other than "negative effects". Also, the last campaign chapter is the war of the roses so I'm assuming we won't have to worry about heat/snow there I don't have any idea so far. Some of available generals have snow fighting (Hardrada, for example), but I don't see many areas with snow. So, it is difficult to test advantage as well as disadvantage of such "humid conditions". It would make more sense if we had change of seasons or rain/snow on the battlefield maps. |
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Post by blueberry on Apr 1, 2022 7:39:54 GMT
I don't have any idea so far. Some of available generals have snow fighting (Hardrada, for example), but I don't see many areas with snow. So, it is difficult to test advantage as well as disadvantage of such "humid conditions". It would make more sense if we had change of seasons or rain/snow on the battlefield maps. |
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Post by kingbutawl on Apr 2, 2022 11:09:21 GMT
Everything in England is humid or moist (and other northern places, ofc). I still can't find a real difference, in attack therms, between guns and crossbows/bows and similar stuff.
I'm waiting for Conquistadors (I have 28 fragments) to make some tests
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