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Post by Just One Bite on May 18, 2022 4:58:21 GMT
We all know that Sun L.R. is known for its hybrid capabilities on Infantry and Tank, as well as being fast and deals lots of damage on jungles.
But what if I tell you that he's also good on artillery?
On jungles, he deals 12 + 20 damage. That's equivalent to the damage that Crerar does on plains.
His 4 stars movement allows him to travel 3 hexes on water.
Granted, his price and low health makes him less favorable to be purchased, as well as Bai C.X. overshadows him in damage, health, and a little extra cost. Jungle is not a common terrain like plains, so his damage isn't very reliable.
But who else can achieve similar feats of his? Bai is one of the top 3 non-IAP gens, Leeb, Crerar, Badoglio, Vasilevsky, Xu S.Y., Clark and Kesselring lack speed, Yamamoto and Devers lack damage. Desert fighting is obsolete outside Africa and Middle East, in the case of Rommel and Montgomery.
Edit: I just found out that Zhang Z.Z. has similar abilities to that of Sun L.R., with slightly lower damage but higher damage reliability, and one less movement star. His skills also applicable on artillery too, though not very significant.
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Post by resiphius on May 26, 2022 21:36:23 GMT
His health is relatively thin for the price, and his skills except Jungle Fighting are useless when commanding artilleries (so do his airforce ability, which conflicts with the Jungle Fighting), he is at best a faster Leeb with lower survivability when not attacking anything classified as fortifications (same cost as Leeb if promoted to colonel).
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Post by Just One Bite on May 26, 2022 23:29:32 GMT
His health is relatively thin for the price, and his skills except Jungle Fighting are useless when commanding artilleries (so do his airforce ability, which conflicts with the Jungle Fighting), he is at best a faster Leeb with lower survivability when not attacking anything classified as fortifications (same cost as Leeb if promoted to colonel). Health can be fixed by promoting, and speed is one of the important aspects when it comes to artillery generals (Govorov is an exception). I agree that his other skills are next to useless, even on infantry (except lvl 3 raider). |
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Post by resiphius on May 28, 2022 7:56:04 GMT
His health is relatively thin for the price, and his skills except Jungle Fighting are useless when commanding artilleries (so do his airforce ability, which conflicts with the Jungle Fighting), he is at best a faster Leeb with lower survivability when not attacking anything classified as fortifications (same cost as Leeb if promoted to colonel). Health can be fixed by promoting, and speed is one of the important aspects when it comes to artillery generals (Govorov is an exception). I agree that his other skills are next to useless, even on infantry (except lvl 3 raider). Like I said, promotion also bring Sun’s full cost to the same as Leeb, yet still lacks survivability and skills that can compensate the output loss when outside Jungle terrain or further boost damage dealt to enemy, while his airforce ability offers very little value (unlike Clark, Yamamoto, Montgomery or even Li ZR). In fact, Sun is weak at fighting fortification or city with health, and loses to Alexander in fighting armors (who is cheaper, has more health and is equal to six-star general when fighting armor, and has 2 star in airforce too). |
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Post by Just One Bite on May 28, 2022 11:43:24 GMT
Health can be fixed by promoting, and speed is one of the important aspects when it comes to artillery generals (Govorov is an exception). I agree that his other skills are next to useless, even on infantry (except lvl 3 raider). Like I said, promotion also bring Sun’s full cost to the same as Leeb, yet still lacks survivability and skills that can compensate the output loss when outside Jungle terrain or further boost damage dealt to enemy, while his airforce ability offers very little value (unlike Clark, Yamamoto, Montgomery or even Li ZR). In fact, Sun is weak at fighting fortification or city with health, and loses to Alexander in fighting armors (who is cheaper, has more health and is equal to six-star general when fighting armor, and has 2 star in airforce too). If Sun is low on health, he can easily retreat from battle with his 4 stars movement. Leeb can't do that immediately, and without artillery barrage skill, he could only last a little bit longer with his survivability skills. Alexander's anti armor skill is useful in WW2 and maybe Cold War, but it is useless against aliens. We don't talk about air force capabilities of generals with 2 stars or lower as it's not very significant in battle (even Guderian has 2 air force stars). |
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Post by resiphius on May 29, 2022 18:43:45 GMT
Like I said, promotion also bring Sun’s full cost to the same as Leeb, yet still lacks survivability and skills that can compensate the output loss when outside Jungle terrain or further boost damage dealt to enemy, while his airforce ability offers very little value (unlike Clark, Yamamoto, Montgomery or even Li ZR). In fact, Sun is weak at fighting fortification or city with health, and loses to Alexander in fighting armors (who is cheaper, has more health and is equal to six-star general when fighting armor, and has 2 star in airforce too). If Sun is low on health, he can easily retreat from battle with his 4 stars movement. Leeb can't do that immediately, and without artillery barrage skill, he could only last a little bit longer with his survivability skills. Alexander's anti armor skill is useful in WW2 and maybe Cold War, but it is useless against aliens. We don't talk about air force capabilities of generals with 2 stars or lower as it's not very significant in battle (even Guderian has 2 air force stars). Just telling you that movement ability of an artillery general is always meant to carry his unit quicker to combat zones but not escape from them, so if your artillery general has to retreat a lot, he doesn’t have the adequate survivability to be a good one. (Keep in mind that all artilleries come with skills that grant them high chance in retaliation avoidance, so retreat should be only used as last resort) As for airforce ability, being not very significant is one thing, and being solely an overpricing factor is another. In Clark and Guderian’s cases they’re at least adequate for their price so the 2-star airforce is more like a tiny bonus, but in Sun’s case he is already considered being overpriced, thus the 2-star airforce is just an unwanted feature that charges players’ medals for it. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on May 30, 2022 7:12:42 GMT
We need 3 artillery generals. Two of them will be Govorov and EC (Manstein for IAPs), and you've already said that Sun is not as good as Bai.
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Post by Just One Bite on May 30, 2022 11:51:24 GMT
We need 3 artillery generals. Two of them will be Govorov and EC (Manstein for IAPs), and you've already said that Sun is not as good as Bai. True, we don't need more artillery generals for aliens as the ones you mentioned are sufficient. I'm not trying to persuade people to purchase Sun (medals aren't easy to get), this thread is created to show people about his strength on artillery that I discovered. |
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Post by Just One Bite on May 30, 2022 12:05:54 GMT
If Sun is low on health, he can easily retreat from battle with his 4 stars movement. Leeb can't do that immediately, and without artillery barrage skill, he could only last a little bit longer with his survivability skills. Alexander's anti armor skill is useful in WW2 and maybe Cold War, but it is useless against aliens. We don't talk about air force capabilities of generals with 2 stars or lower as it's not very significant in battle (even Guderian has 2 air force stars). Just telling you that movement ability of an artillery general is always meant to carry his unit quicker to combat zones but not escape from them, so if your artillery general has to retreat a lot, he doesn’t have the adequate survivability to be a good one. (Keep in mind that all artilleries come with skills that grant them high chance in retaliation avoidance, so retreat should be only used as last resort) As for airforce ability, being not very significant is one thing, and being solely an overpricing factor is another. In Clark and Guderian’s cases they’re at least adequate for their price so the 2-star airforce is more like a tiny bonus, but in Sun’s case he is already considered being overpriced, thus the 2-star airforce is just an unwanted feature that charges players’ medals for it. You're assuming that Sun retreats frequently, but that is not the case here since he's on artillery, and as you mentioned that artillery has the retaliation avoidance skill, he wouldn't take damage very often, unless he's fighting against a huge army, a strong general, or simply aliens. Sun's firepower isn't bad as well, which means that he can take on most enemies that doesn't deal more damage than him. I don't think the 2 air force stars influence the price of Sun, as we all know the price of academy generals aren't correctly priced. |
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Post by resiphius on May 30, 2022 14:00:56 GMT
Just telling you that movement ability of an artillery general is always meant to carry his unit quicker to combat zones but not escape from them, so if your artillery general has to retreat a lot, he doesn’t have the adequate survivability to be a good one. (Keep in mind that all artilleries come with skills that grant them high chance in retaliation avoidance, so retreat should be only used as last resort) As for airforce ability, being not very significant is one thing, and being solely an overpricing factor is another. In Clark and Guderian’s cases they’re at least adequate for their price so the 2-star airforce is more like a tiny bonus, but in Sun’s case he is already considered being overpriced, thus the 2-star airforce is just an unwanted feature that charges players’ medals for it. You're assuming that Sun retreats frequently, but that is not the case here since he's on artillery, and as you mentioned that artillery has the retaliation avoidance skill, he wouldn't take damage very often, unless he's fighting against a huge army, a strong general, or simply aliens. Sun's firepower isn't bad as well, which means that he can take on most enemies that doesn't deal more damage than him. I don't think the 2 air force stars influence the price of Sun, as we all know the price of academy generals aren't correctly priced. I assume Sun retreat frequently because a general’s survival depends both on his firepower and defensive ability, yet Sun can only relies on jungle terrains to barely catch up Leeb in both fields ignoring the latter’s anti-fortification and damage reduction skills, and your statement of Sun can take on most weaker enemies doesn’t necessarily apply to city garrisons that appear in most missions and all conquests. As for the price, no skill or ability actually has any impact on it, but people may still think they do when criticizing the incorrect pricing of a general, especially if it is EC commanders being compared to. |
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Post by Just One Bite on May 30, 2022 19:46:52 GMT
You're assuming that Sun retreats frequently, but that is not the case here since he's on artillery, and as you mentioned that artillery has the retaliation avoidance skill, he wouldn't take damage very often, unless he's fighting against a huge army, a strong general, or simply aliens. Sun's firepower isn't bad as well, which means that he can take on most enemies that doesn't deal more damage than him. I don't think the 2 air force stars influence the price of Sun, as we all know the price of academy generals aren't correctly priced. I assume Sun retreat frequently because a general’s survival depends both on his firepower and defensive ability, yet Sun can only relies on jungle terrains to barely catch up Leeb in both fields ignoring the latter’s anti-fortification and damage reduction skills, and your statement of Sun can take on most weaker enemies doesn’t necessarily apply to city garrisons that appear in most missions and all conquests. As for the price, no skill or ability actually has any impact on it, but people may still think they do when criticizing the incorrect pricing of a general, especially if it is EC commanders being compared to. Barely catch up Leeb? Sun does fall short in anti-fortification, but his damage exceeds that of Leeb when in jungles. Sun's main selling point isn't airforce, and most people will ignore it when judging its price. If you compare with the upgrade cost of EC it only costs 60 medals, not that significant. |
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Post by resiphius on May 30, 2022 21:19:53 GMT
I assume Sun retreat frequently because a general’s survival depends both on his firepower and defensive ability, yet Sun can only relies on jungle terrains to barely catch up Leeb in both fields ignoring the latter’s anti-fortification and damage reduction skills, and your statement of Sun can take on most weaker enemies doesn’t necessarily apply to city garrisons that appear in most missions and all conquests. As for the price, no skill or ability actually has any impact on it, but people may still think they do when criticizing the incorrect pricing of a general, especially if it is EC commanders being compared to. Barely catch up Leeb? Sun does fall short in anti-fortification, but his damage exceeds that of Leeb when in jungles. Sun's main selling point isn't airforce, and most people will ignore it when judging its price. If you compare with the upgrade cost of EC it only costs 60 medals, not that significant. Sun’s 32 is just 2 points more than the 30 provided by Leeb’s 5 stars and falls short against the 33 achieved by Clark in city, not to mention Clark has 30hp more than a colonel Sun but is 60 medal cheaper. And just remind you that I have never said the 2-star airforce is Sun’s selling point nor it is to him, only generals with street fighting or being assigned to garrison cities may benefit from that, but even in those cases it is just “better than nothing”. |
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Post by Just One Bite on May 31, 2022 1:22:33 GMT
Barely catch up Leeb? Sun does fall short in anti-fortification, but his damage exceeds that of Leeb when in jungles. Sun's main selling point isn't airforce, and most people will ignore it when judging its price. If you compare with the upgrade cost of EC it only costs 60 medals, not that significant. Sun’s 32 is just 2 points more than the 30 provided by Leeb’s 5 stars and falls short against the 33 achieved by Clark in city, not to mention Clark has 30hp more than a colonel Sun but is 60 medal cheaper. And just remind you that I have never said the 2-star airforce is Sun’s selling point nor it is to him, only generals with street fighting or being assigned to garrison cities may benefit from that, but even in those cases it is just “better than nothing”. To be fair, those 2 generals you mentioned have high firepower, but they fall short in mobility, in which it takes a long time to run from one battlefield to another. Sun solves this issue by having 4 stars movement, while not lacking in damage either. You did mention quite a lot about Sun's air force capabilities, like how it's not suitable with his jungle fighting skills and being an overpriced factor. |
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Post by resiphius on Jun 1, 2022 3:31:45 GMT
Sun’s 32 is just 2 points more than the 30 provided by Leeb’s 5 stars and falls short against the 33 achieved by Clark in city, not to mention Clark has 30hp more than a colonel Sun but is 60 medal cheaper. And just remind you that I have never said the 2-star airforce is Sun’s selling point nor it is to him, only generals with street fighting or being assigned to garrison cities may benefit from that, but even in those cases it is just “better than nothing”. To be fair, those 2 generals you mentioned have high firepower, but they fall short in mobility, in which it takes a long time to run from one battlefield to another. Sun solves this issue by having 4 stars movement, while not lacking in damage either. You did mention quite a lot about Sun's air force capabilities, like how it's not suitable with his jungle fighting skills and being an overpriced factor. [br Sun’s 4-star movement is in deed a rare asset, but like I said before, that doesn’t compensate his shortcoming of having only trash skills as artillery general (jungle fighting is unaccounted for because he can’t even join the ring without it). Leeb and Clark fall short in mobility, but has anti-fortification ability like Govorov and Manstein, which is useful most of the time. I mentioned quite a lot about Sun’s airforce capabilities because among the viable choices, Montgomery, Yamamoto and Kesselring have their airforce ability to supplement the lack of anti-fortification or plain fighting ability, Xu SY and Clark’s airforce ability can add a little bit versatility without jeopardizing their firepower. |
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Post by Just One Bite on Jun 1, 2022 9:48:57 GMT
To be fair, those 2 generals you mentioned have high firepower, but they fall short in mobility, in which it takes a long time to run from one battlefield to another. Sun solves this issue by having 4 stars movement, while not lacking in damage either. You did mention quite a lot about Sun's air force capabilities, like how it's not suitable with his jungle fighting skills and being an overpriced factor. [br Sun’s 4-star movement is in deed a rare asset, but like I said before, that doesn’t compensate his shortcoming of having only trash skills as artillery general (jungle fighting is unaccounted for because he can’t even join the ring without it). Leeb and Clark fall short in mobility, but has anti-fortification ability like Govorov and Manstein, which is useful most of the time. I mentioned quite a lot about Sun’s airforce capabilities because among the viable choices, Montgomery, Yamamoto and Kesselring have their airforce ability to supplement the lack of anti-fortification or plain fighting ability, Xu SY and Clark’s airforce ability can add a little bit versatility without jeopardizing their firepower. That still doesn't make Sun less viable than Leeb (and you repeating your reasons doesn't help in your explanation either). Clark's street fighting and explosives skill don't synergize well, in which he has to sacrifice his street fighting perk in order to attack another city. Patton is an exception to this rule due to tanks having assault skill. About air-force ability, unless you want your artillery general to defend a city, most of the time he is used at the front line smashing enemies. Montgomery on artillery doesn't fare well against enemies attacking head-on to the city, Kesselring is too slow to run between cities. Yamamoto is a good general to be used for this purpose, although he's more proficient in his air force skill than his artillery ability. |
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