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Post by resiphius on Jun 3, 2022 2:38:01 GMT
[br Sun’s 4-star movement is in deed a rare asset, but like I said before, that doesn’t compensate his shortcoming of having only trash skills as artillery general (jungle fighting is unaccounted for because he can’t even join the ring without it). Leeb and Clark fall short in mobility, but has anti-fortification ability like Govorov and Manstein, which is useful most of the time. I mentioned quite a lot about Sun’s airforce capabilities because among the viable choices, Montgomery, Yamamoto and Kesselring have their airforce ability to supplement the lack of anti-fortification or plain fighting ability, Xu SY and Clark’s airforce ability can add a little bit versatility without jeopardizing their firepower. That still doesn't make Sun less viable than Leeb (and you repeating your reasons doesn't help in your explanation either). Clark's street fighting and explosives skill don't synergize well, in which he has to sacrifice his street fighting perk in order to attack another city. Patton is an exception to this rule due to tanks having assault skill. About air-force ability, unless you want your artillery general to defend a city, most of the time he is used at the front line smashing enemies. Montgomery on artillery doesn't fare well against enemies attacking head-on to the city, Kesselring is too slow to run between cities. Yamamoto is a good general to be used for this purpose, although he's more proficient in his air force skill than his artillery ability. Sun can be used as an artillery general, but only as a low-end one in the 3rd tier for his unstable firepower and low versatility, with the latter also downplays his high movement which would otherwise be a great asset for a more capable artillery general (except for players that have an artillery centric play style, since they would have less need in the generals’ movement ability) About Clark’s “problem”, it is more of nitpicking than a serious problem since both skills have high enough level to boost his firepower significantly alone, the effect brought by the bad synergy is less prominent than the versatility induced by the skills themselves, which allow Clark to remain useful outside cities (as contrast to pure defensive generals that lose firepower when stepping out of the city). For the airforce ability, I think artilleries are not just steadfast defenders but also support and occasionally even substitute of armors in assaulting secondary targets, so having airforce ability would come handy when the dedicate airforce general is not around. Montgomery’s case, however, is different from other artillery generals with 2 or more airforce stars. Instead of “summon air support by yourself”, he simply switches his role between artillery and airforce general when stepping in and out of desert regions. |
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Post by Just One Bite on Jun 3, 2022 17:16:36 GMT
That still doesn't make Sun less viable than Leeb (and you repeating your reasons doesn't help in your explanation either). Clark's street fighting and explosives skill don't synergize well, in which he has to sacrifice his street fighting perk in order to attack another city. Patton is an exception to this rule due to tanks having assault skill. About air-force ability, unless you want your artillery general to defend a city, most of the time he is used at the front line smashing enemies. Montgomery on artillery doesn't fare well against enemies attacking head-on to the city, Kesselring is too slow to run between cities. Yamamoto is a good general to be used for this purpose, although he's more proficient in his air force skill than his artillery ability. Sun can be used as an artillery general, but only as a low-end one in the 3rd tier for his unstable firepower and low versatility, with the latter also downplays his high movement which would otherwise be a great asset for a more capable artillery general (except for players that have an artillery centric play style, since they would have less need in the generals’ movement ability) About Clark’s “problem”, it is more of nitpicking than a serious problem since both skills have high enough level to boost his firepower significantly alone, the effect brought by the bad synergy is less prominent than the versatility induced by the skills themselves, which allow Clark to remain useful outside cities (as contrast to pure defensive generals that lose firepower when stepping out of the city). For the airforce ability, I think artilleries are not just steadfast defenders but also support and occasionally even substitute of armors in assaulting secondary targets, so having airforce ability would come handy when the dedicate airforce general is not around. Montgomery’s case, however, is different from other artillery generals with 2 or more airforce stars. Instead of “summon air support by yourself”, he simply switches his role between artillery and airforce general when stepping in and out of desert regions. Leeb couldn't downplay Sun since he has low movement. The problem with comparing these two is that they play a slightly different role in artillery based on the skills they have. Leeb is like a Govorov lite that would do well in Europe but bad in America and Asia, and vice versa for Sun. Ah, I forgot about Clark's skill versatility. He's a mix between Leeb and Sun, where he has the explosives skill and slow movement of Leeb, and terrain-dependent fighting style like Sun. That applies to infantry and tank generals as well. Sun falls short on this part, but so does Leeb, these two are mainly frontline generals and sitting in cities just isn't bringing out their best potential. Clark does this better, but suffers the same problem as Kesselring. There aren't a lot of battles in Africa and Middle East that allow Montgomery to make use of his artillery abilities (which, I said it in the first post), so your point of switching his role doesn't add up. |
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Post by resiphius on Jun 4, 2022 6:54:21 GMT
Sun can be used as an artillery general, but only as a low-end one in the 3rd tier for his unstable firepower and low versatility, with the latter also downplays his high movement which would otherwise be a great asset for a more capable artillery general (except for players that have an artillery centric play style, since they would have less need in the generals’ movement ability) About Clark’s “problem”, it is more of nitpicking than a serious problem since both skills have high enough level to boost his firepower significantly alone, the effect brought by the bad synergy is less prominent than the versatility induced by the skills themselves, which allow Clark to remain useful outside cities (as contrast to pure defensive generals that lose firepower when stepping out of the city). For the airforce ability, I think artilleries are not just steadfast defenders but also support and occasionally even substitute of armors in assaulting secondary targets, so having airforce ability would come handy when the dedicate airforce general is not around. Montgomery’s case, however, is different from other artillery generals with 2 or more airforce stars. Instead of “summon air support by yourself”, he simply switches his role between artillery and airforce general when stepping in and out of desert regions. Leeb couldn't downplay Sun since he has low movement. The problem with comparing these two is that they play a slightly different role in artillery based on the skills they have. Leeb is like a Govorov lite that would do well in Europe but bad in America and Asia, and vice versa for Sun. Ah, I forgot about Clark's skill versatility. He's a mix between Leeb and Sun, where he has the explosives skill and slow movement of Leeb, and terrain-dependent fighting style like Sun. That applies to infantry and tank generals as well. Sun falls short on this part, but so does Leeb, these two are mainly frontline generals and sitting in cities just isn't bringing out their best potential. Clark does this better, but suffers the same problem as Kesselring. There aren't a lot of battles in Africa and Middle East that allow Montgomery to make use of his artillery abilities (which, I said it in the first post), so your point of switching his role doesn't add up. Quite understand why you think it doesn’t add up, because you tunnel-visioned on his desert-bound artillery general aspect despite the fact that Montgomery is more of an airforce general when commanding artillery. |
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Post by Just One Bite on Jun 4, 2022 14:02:07 GMT
Leeb couldn't downplay Sun since he has low movement. The problem with comparing these two is that they play a slightly different role in artillery based on the skills they have. Leeb is like a Govorov lite that would do well in Europe but bad in America and Asia, and vice versa for Sun. Ah, I forgot about Clark's skill versatility. He's a mix between Leeb and Sun, where he has the explosives skill and slow movement of Leeb, and terrain-dependent fighting style like Sun. That applies to infantry and tank generals as well. Sun falls short on this part, but so does Leeb, these two are mainly frontline generals and sitting in cities just isn't bringing out their best potential. Clark does this better, but suffers the same problem as Kesselring. There aren't a lot of battles in Africa and Middle East that allow Montgomery to make use of his artillery abilities (which, I said it in the first post), so your point of switching his role doesn't add up. Quite understand why you think it doesn’t add up, because you tunnel-visioned on his desert-bound artillery general aspect despite the fact that Montgomery is more of an airforce general when commanding artillery. Remember, this thread is about artillery capabilities of a general. Montgomery's low damage on artillery outside desert makes him only viable as an air force general, not an artillery one. Therefore his air force capabilities only compensates his lack of artillery skills, not boost it further. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Aug 24, 2022 16:32:54 GMT
Someone actually tried it, and it surprisingly works. At least for alien challenges.
And he's using List as the third tank...
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Post by Josip Broz Tito on Aug 25, 2022 3:39:32 GMT
Someone actually tried it, and it surprisingly works. At least for alien challenges. And he's using List as the third tank... What? Well, I suppose that's interesting. Sun L R doesn't work out of jungles though. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Aug 25, 2022 4:07:22 GMT
Someone actually tried it, and it surprisingly works. At least for alien challenges. And he's using List as the third tank... What? Well, I suppose that's interesting. Sun L R doesn't work out of jungles though. Jungles are not as common as plains but most cities have a few jungle tiles around them, which Sun can take advantage of with his speed. However that's not that much of an easy task for ordinary players. |
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Post by resiphius on Aug 26, 2022 6:21:23 GMT
Quite understand why you think it doesn’t add up, because you tunnel-visioned on his desert-bound artillery general aspect despite the fact that Montgomery is more of an airforce general when commanding artillery. Remember, this thread is about artillery capabilities of a general. Montgomery's low damage on artillery outside desert makes him only viable as an air force general, not an artillery one. Therefore his air force capabilities only compensates his lack of artillery skills, not boost it further. So do Sun outside Jungles lol, and what I said about Montgomery was just I tried to interpret the reason why he was among the list of artillery general candidates, not that I agreed he is one. |
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