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Pole-arm
Sept 11, 2022 0:45:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by diyankr on Sept 11, 2022 0:45:24 GMT
What is the best pole-arm unit in the game?
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Pole-arm
Sept 11, 2022 2:06:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by stoic on Sept 11, 2022 2:06:06 GMT
What is the best pole-arm unit in the game? Since pole-arm Mastery is the skill both profitable for charging cavalry as well as pikemen, the answer is - Templars and Swiss halberdiers.
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Pole-arm
Sept 11, 2022 6:53:58 GMT
via mobile
Post by prebenh on Sept 11, 2022 6:53:58 GMT
What is the best pole-arm unit in the game? Since pole-arm Mastery is the skill both profitable for charging cavalry as well as pikemen, the answer is - Templars and Swiss halberdiers. Is the weapon of the Modao Battalion not a pole-arm? Or is the unit not as good as the Swiss?
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Pole-arm
Sept 11, 2022 7:43:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by stoic on Sept 11, 2022 7:43:50 GMT
Since pole-arm Mastery is the skill both profitable for charging cavalry as well as pikemen, the answer is - Templars and Swiss halberdiers. Is the weapon of the Modao Battalion not a pole-arm? Or is the unit not as good as the Swiss? I like Swiss guys more. They are experts in charge counter and that is the main point of defence infantry.
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Post by Ralyks on Sept 11, 2022 9:00:48 GMT
Hm... while I normally agree with your comments and reasoning, I differ with you stoic here
Modao is clearly superior. In raw stats, the Modao is superior. Now, lets talk about skills:
Having a single Modao Batallion in the squad means that all troops will counterattack if being charged at. Its better than the Swiss' fourth skill. On fourth, the Modao takes a win.
Also the first skill from Swiss Halbs literally reduce the efficacy of the fourth, as it lowers enemy's charge chance, and without a charge, it won't trigger. Modao raises the counterattack damage which is useful always, not only against charge cavalry or charges, but any non-ranged attack. On first, the Modao takes another win.
The only skill I can agree it can arguably win the Swiss is the second skill, which reduces legion damage by cavalry by 15% (and I think this is both charge and melee cav), while Modao gets a mobility skill (albeit, the best mobility skill), so depending on the squad or situation, it can prove more useful, but for the troop type it is, I would indeed prefer to have Square instead.
Third skill is the same on both.
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Pole-arm
Sept 11, 2022 9:36:18 GMT
via mobile
Post by stoic on Sept 11, 2022 9:36:18 GMT
Hm... while I normally agree with your comments and reasoning, I differ with you stoic here Modao is clearly superior. In raw stats, the Modao is superior. Now, lets talk about skills: Having a single Modao Batallion in the squad means that all troops will counterattack if being charged at. Its better than the Swiss' fourth skill. On fourth, the Modao takes a win. Also the first skill from Swiss Halbs literally reduce the efficacy of the fourth, as it lowers enemy's charge chance, and without a charge, it won't trigger. Modao raises the counterattack damage which is useful always, not only against charge cavalry or charges, but any non-ranged attack. On first, the Modao takes another win. The only skill I can agree it can arguably win the Swiss is the second skill, which reduces legion damage by cavalry by 15% (and I think this is both charge and melee cav), while Modao gets a mobility skill (albeit, the best mobility skill), so depending on the squad or situation, it can prove more useful, but for the troop type it is, I would indeed prefer to have Square instead. Third skill is the same on both. Since I don't have neither of them (and quite doubtful I will ever have) it is largely a theoretical point of view, but my arguments are as follows: 1. The fact that all units will counterattack looks good on paper. But who are these units? Melee or charge cavalry, melee Infantry? To be honest they are quite weak at counterattacking. Archers? They will counterattack anyway. 2. Since Swiss halberdiers reduce charge probability, they have relatively high chance to survive if attacked by charge cavalry, while Modao will certainly be destroyed, no matter how powerful their counterattack is. Probably such a trade-off is useful in PvP battles, when we are willing to sacrifice a legion to destroy Richard and Co. But normally I would like to keep my legions intact and to heal them when it is needed (medical tents, war drums). Modao is a perfect unit for Dingfang, but any other general with Modao will be dead within seconds when trying to stop cavalry charge. And to stop cavalry charges is the primary role of Defence Infantry. 3. Modao are better suited than Swiss guys for attacks, but they are not as good as melee Infantry in this department. They have too many offensive skills for a defence Infantry unit and too many defensive skills for an attacking unit, imo. Like I said, it is only theoretical assumptions. And we need help of yuanzhong to test them in real battles. But my guts say me that Swiss halberdiers are more steadfast and better at counterattacks.
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Pole-arm
Sept 11, 2022 10:10:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by yuanzhong on Sept 11, 2022 10:10:14 GMT
My maxed Richard once nearly die when charging into tripple swiss legion of Beli (bots) and not only Richard meet this problem. But I didn't face this problem with Modao. The 4th skill of Modao doesn't help much with triple defence inf legion. In other case (mixed legion) I haven't had much experience because big variation. And damage of counter attack is calculated after receiving attacking damage.
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Pole-arm
Sept 11, 2022 11:09:35 GMT
via mobile
Post by verily on Sept 11, 2022 11:09:35 GMT
As f2p Heavy phalanx and noble cavalry as they are in high lvl unlike the others.
The units for pole arm mastery depends on you. If you have templars and swiss in high lvl use them.
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Pole-arm
Sept 11, 2022 11:15:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Alexyx on Sept 11, 2022 11:15:42 GMT
I already have modao at decent level, swiss are to be unlocked. I'll try to test them against charge cav
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Post by Ralyks on Sept 11, 2022 12:29:57 GMT
With Su Dingfang active skill, they literally 1 shot in counterdefense higher leveled Templars, Noble Knights and most cavalry. Infantry gets heavily damaged also, the only doing winning a trade on him on attack are archers.
But y, its his unique troop and this skill just makes them shine even more than they do normally, as receiving almost no damage can make the counterattack superdeadly. On my other infantry I normally have either Varangian with horse archers, Varangian with melee Cavalry or Varangian with Heavy Phalanx (as I have them lvl 15 vs Modao's lvl 6), depending on the second best skill of the General.
I do have swiss unlocked, but because they're only level 3, no general has any of them. Anyways, of the F2P friendly troops, Heavy Phalanx is the best troop.
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Post by Alexyx on Sept 11, 2022 23:14:15 GMT
Tested both units in territory and Modao is simply better. Yes, they take damage, but so do swiss halbs. The difference is 1000 vs 800 with charge. On the other hand difference in counter dmg is 800 vs 250. For me Modao is a winner here, provided you have access to them
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Post by stoic on Sept 12, 2022 1:14:53 GMT
Tested both units in territory and Modao is simply better. Yes, they take damage, but so do swiss halbs. The difference is 1000 vs 800 with charge. On the other hand difference in counter dmg is 800 vs 250. For me Modao is a winner here, provided you have access to them At lvl 12 Swiss halberdiers should aquire lvl 3 Halberd skill. This will reduce the probability of charge by 40%. It is quite significant, I think, since charge is the most damaging ability in the game.
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Post by yuanzhong on Sept 12, 2022 5:03:28 GMT
For what stoic , said: It's nice when 2 nemesis use same weapon, It remind me Squall and Seifer in Final Fantasy VIII
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Post by Alexyx on Sept 12, 2022 22:08:18 GMT
Tested both units in territory and Modao is simply better. Yes, they take damage, but so do swiss halbs. The difference is 1000 vs 800 with charge. On the other hand difference in counter dmg is 800 vs 250. For me Modao is a winner here, provided you have access to them At lvl 12 Swiss halberdiers should aquire lvl 3 Halberd skill. This will reduce the probability of charge by 40%. It is quite significant, I think, since charge is the most damaging ability in the game. That's the question: Do you prefer to obliterate enemy charge cav while sustaining significant loses to one army or to receive less damage but risk them attacking more vulnerable units (melee infantry, ranged units)? Personally I'm satisfied with the former option, but still the levels play a paramount role here. Both Modao and Swiss halbardiers are equally difficult for f2p player to mass. Heavy Phalanx is the choice for them. P2w players can choose pretty much whatever. P2l players won't be content with any of the two
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