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Post by nexttimebro on Sept 28, 2022 22:38:53 GMT
Hi guys! Few days ago there was a discussion in another topic about gems bonus mechanics. I did several tests and happy to share results with you. Test data:General: Basil II, 10 lvl weapon, required gems (look at screens), 2 gold equipment. Where: Timur’s legend, Defeat of the Ottomans stage 1 Additional items: 2-3 generals with Leadership skill, Nevsky. Counts: 5 attacks for each step to me sure that dmg is the same (maximized). For reliable tests we will to have a stable damage. I used a combination of Basil II active skill + 100% charge rate for Varangians. Having 2-3 generals with Leadership skill around Basil, we can start a mission with the highest morale (+15 charge rate). In addition, we can boost our Basil with Nevsky active skill and get 100% charge rate as a result (35+15+50). Mixing gems among our equipment we may reach the same stats but with or without unit dmg bonus. Test 1: 1 Varangian + 2 other units with and without unit dmg gems bonus. Without With 5% dmg for Varangian: Results: Total legion dmg is higher by 5% with gems bonus (1642/1564 = 1.0499) Test 2:3 Varangians with and without unit dmg gems bonus. Triple charge may be seen on screens. General stats are the same as in test 1. Without: With 5% dmg bonus for Varangians: Results: Total legion dmg is higher by 5% with gems bonus (2784/2652 = 1.0498) Test 3: Lets go even further and test triple unit dmg bonus (Garrison + Woad Rider + Varangians) Without: With triple unit dmg bonus: Results: Total legion dmg is higher by 15% (1537/1335 = 1.151) Outcomes: 1) Unit dmg bonus is applicable for the whole legion. 2) Legion may have more than one unit dmg bonus at the same time 3) Dmg bonuses are additive, not multiplicative (3*5% = 15%) I’ll be happy to see your feedback about my tests. maybe someone is ready to do similar tests in other conditions.
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Post by Erich on Nov 27, 2022 15:50:01 GMT
Thanks for the tests, that helps!! But do those skills from gems stack with the general’s skills? Like I have a gen with level 3 Inf Tactician (+10% inf damage) if I give him gems for another level 1 Inf Tactician (+5% inf damage), should his damage now be +15% for infantry, or still +10%??
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Post by nexttimebro on Nov 30, 2022 9:14:19 GMT
Thanks for the tests, that helps!! But do those skills from gems stack with the general’s skills? Like I have a gen with level 3 Inf Tactician (+10% inf damage) if I give him gems for another level 1 Inf Tactician (+5% inf damage), should his damage now be +15% for infantry, or still +10%?? 10%. Gem skills are the same as normal skills. The actual level = max(gen skill, gem skill). In your example it’s going to be lvl 3.
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Post by nikomachos on Dec 7, 2022 15:05:07 GMT
same question but with unique unit dmg bc i forgot.
example: basil gets 20%dmg for varangians. if i use the gem combo for 5 % varangian does he get 25% or not? weird case where selected type already is HIS special dmg in particular.
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Post by stoic on Dec 7, 2022 15:41:12 GMT
I am profoundly suspicious of unit bonuses, truth be told. Many of them present a bizarre combination of gems and don't have any impact on the outcome in campaigns and Epic battles when we have random units at our disposal. In case of Basil, Cnut and Hardrada "Infantry tactician" is the best way to improve their performance, imo...
Besides, it is probably the best possible combination of gems for an Infantry general anyway: two capability gems plus one damage gem.
For Robert the Bruce "Melee infantry expert" is probably the best addition.
Or "Defence Infantry expert"...
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Post by nikomachos on Dec 7, 2022 16:27:12 GMT
i agree its exactly those combos i had inlayed but i started reorganizing my cavalry and the same question popped up for alfred. and i am trying to accomodate the +1 movement gems so i retraced everything i had up to now and am currently trying to "fix sth that aint broken" xD bc my setup was perfect anyway. but anyway just got curious bc its a weird circumstance and might be interesting later for other gens as well.
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Post by nexttimebro on Dec 7, 2022 18:02:27 GMT
same question but with unique unit dmg bc i forgot. example: basil gets 20%dmg for varangians. if i use the gem combo for 5 % varangian does he get 25% or not? weird case where selected type already is HIS special dmg in particular. 25%
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Post by stoic on Dec 7, 2022 18:17:52 GMT
i agree its exactly those combos i had inlayed but i started reorganizing my cavalry and the same question popped up for alfred. and i am trying to accomodate the +1 movement gems so i retraced everything i had up to now and am currently trying to "fix sth that aint broken" xD bc my setup was perfect anyway. but anyway just got curious bc its a weird circumstance and might be interesting later for other gens as well. It seems I have found a good place for mobility gem. With this gem And without...
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Post by jonblend on Dec 8, 2022 6:49:26 GMT
same question but with unique unit dmg bc i forgot. example: basil gets 20%dmg for varangians. if i use the gem combo for 5 % varangian does he get 25% or not? weird case where selected type already is HIS special dmg in particular. 25% Could it also be 1.25*1.05=1.26?
The reason being that the 1.20 multiplier from Basil's weapon is already included in the "base damage" of the first result of Test1. And since you concluded that damage was increased by 1.05 thanks to the gem combo for Varangians, the combined effect would be 26%. Nothing much but it could be more influential when looking at lv2 unit dmg increases.
Now if these two are multiplied it could also be that the 3 unit dmg increases of Test3 are multiplied. However, 1.05^3=1.158 (instead of 1.150) and we clearly see that the results don't support this. But if we go back to the damage formula, we can see that total damage is the sum of each of the three units' individual damage. Assuming that each unit contributes 1/3 of total damage displayed in the screenshot is only 100% accurate if it's 3x the same unit.
What I'm trying to say is that this one Varangian in Test3 is contributing most of the damage because it has the highest unit dmg multiplier (1.26), master of assault (1.15) and melee inf expert (1.08) and maybe your Varangians have significantly higher level and base attack than the other units used.
If you don't mind, repeating Test3 with Basil leading heavy phalanx pike, garrison spearmen and scottish longspearmen and gem combos for 10% unit dmg might prove insightful. And 1.10^3=1.33 vs. 1.30 should be easier do differentiate. Do you know of any testing grounds where the opposing legion doesn't have any ranged units?
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Post by Ralyks on Dec 12, 2022 12:40:17 GMT
I'd like to know if on full single type generals (like full infantry, cavalry or archers) it is more worth to give them only that stat increase or use a mixture of these.
Like I guess this gem type will shine best with generals that use mixed troop types.
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Post by jonblend on Dec 19, 2022 10:32:15 GMT
As you can see, multiplication of unit bonuses leads to the "correct" result. A 1.3 multiplier (instead of 1.331) would create a 1312 <-> 1282 mismatch.
testing ground: Belisarius hard hero legend 6-1
test1 gem set up test1 result
test1_base gem set up
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