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Spaatz
Nov 6, 2022 2:11:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by mrlamo on Nov 6, 2022 2:11:24 GMT
Wow
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Spaatz
Nov 16, 2022 14:26:36 GMT
Post by Zaxer Unixan on Nov 16, 2022 14:26:36 GMT
Nah, Dowding is still better
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Nov 16, 2022 18:41:33 GMT
Nah, Dowding is still better That is... so not true. Dowding has around +8 damage from CB (you will hit units in cities about 80% of the time, and that's generous) plus 5 extra points of morale every hit. Spaatz, on the other hand, avoids AA, has +15 damage ALL of the time, and then another 24% damage on top of that. Spaatz is unbelievably good.
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Nov 16, 2022 19:34:22 GMT
Nah, Dowding is still better That is... so not true. Dowding has around +8 damage from CB (you will hit units in cities about 80% of the time, and that's generous) plus 5 extra points of morale every hit. Spaatz, on the other hand, avoids AA, has +15 damage ALL of the time, and then another 24% damage on top of that. Spaatz is unbelievably good. And that's before we even mention the cost reduction that lets him take two shots for every one of Dowding's.
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Spaatz
Nov 16, 2022 20:01:41 GMT
Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Nov 16, 2022 20:01:41 GMT
That is... so not true. Dowding has around +8 damage from CB (you will hit units in cities about 80% of the time, and that's generous) plus 5 extra points of morale every hit. Spaatz, on the other hand, avoids AA, has +15 damage ALL of the time, and then another 24% damage on top of that. Spaatz is unbelievably good. And that's before we even mention the cost reduction that lets him take two shots for every one of Dowding's. Wait, WHAT?!
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Spaatz
Nov 16, 2022 20:24:35 GMT
Post by Theron of Acragas on Nov 16, 2022 20:24:35 GMT
And that's before we even mention the cost reduction that lets him take two shots for every one of Dowding's. Wait, WHAT?! I may be going insane, but he either had a skill or came with a badge that reduced the cost of air attacks by half (I didn't buy him, can't check now). And other people mentioned it in another thread, so I don't think I dreamed it. That not only makes him the best air general (which TBH seems to be the weakest type of general), it makes him game-breakingly OP.
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Spaatz
Nov 17, 2022 18:11:30 GMT
Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Nov 17, 2022 18:11:30 GMT
I may be going insane, but he either had a skill or came with a badge that reduced the cost of air attacks by half (I didn't buy him, can't check now). And other people mentioned it in another thread, so I don't think I dreamed it. That not only makes him the best air general (which TBH seems to be the weakest type of general), it makes him game-breakingly OP. Maybe it's a medal, but I don't have the update, so I wouldn't know. And yes, he is in fact game-breakingly OP.
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Nov 25, 2022 8:27:52 GMT
Nah, Dowding is still better That is... so not true. Dowding has around +8 damage from CB (you will hit units in cities about 80% of the time, and that's generous) plus 5 extra points of morale every hit. Spaatz, on the other hand, avoids AA, has +15 damage ALL of the time, and then another 24% damage on top of that. Spaatz is unbelievably good. Spaatz just came up again. Perhaps they've changed something, but he has the same CB skill, so that's a wash (no +15 all the time). Avoiding AA is good, as good as Dowding's morale skills together. The killer is Air Force Leader. It's not a 24% attack again chance, it's that cost reduction I talked about, giving you two hits for the price of one. It's not +24% damage, it's literally +100%. And the second attack also hits morale, matching Dowding's second skill. There's one major caveat here. I don't know how or if the cost reduction applies to carriers. If it doesn't work on them, then there really is a case for Dowding on a carrier. But in a naval battle, ignoring AA on battleships/carriers is also pretty huge. Spaatz is at worst about as good on a carrier, and on land he's insane.
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Spaatz
Nov 27, 2022 3:10:50 GMT
Post by Zaxer Unixan on Nov 27, 2022 3:10:50 GMT
After reading the posts above, here's my thoughts ... Dowding is still better (for me) just by that because I only ever use an air force general on a carrier. In my opinion, any other specialized general with any medals on their air force (like MacArthur) and can still do a lot as an infantry general or a tank general. The Avoidance of AA sounds really darn good including the half-cost. It's just that I never use my air force attacks on an AA unit (including other ships) unless I play in the Pacific missions or missions that have mostly water terrain and ships for you to use, and where you have to fight a lot of enemy AA ships, I would never use an air force general ON LAND, because that money (even if the cost of air attacks is halved) is better off spent on replenishing/recruiting/SF as your land/sea units (including generals) can die or lose SF easily in almost all battles. Your other units (specially heavy tanks) can do a better job at eliminating turtling AA units in cities or grouping together with other units. At least for me, I prioritize my air force on mostly tanks, artilleries, and weaker infantry. Would be cool to have Spaatz, but I don't recommend anyone to use him on a carrier because that limits his (ridiculously high) damage output by making him use only two attacks at a time instead of the countless amounts of attacks he can do on an airport ON LAND if you have sufficient money (which can be scarce in some battles). Sidenote: I often times use my air force on very weak units (one-shot away from dying) so that either I don't have to clean them up by sacrificing time or my AI allies'. Spaatz can do the job as twice as much though ... but he's a behind a paywall lmao xd
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Post by Gerd von Rundstedt on Nov 28, 2022 21:39:35 GMT
Zaxer Unixan, I would... highly disagree on the proper use of air force, but that's an argument for a different time. Even on an Aircraft Carrier, Spaatz still does an extra 50% damage due to avoiding the AA of ships over Dowding. He is decisively better, Dowding just cannot come close to matching how OP he is.
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Nov 29, 2022 11:58:39 GMT
After reading the posts above, here's my thoughts ... Dowding is still better (for me) just by that because I only ever use an air force general on a carrier. In my opinion, any other specialized general with any medals on their air force (like MacArthur) and can still do a lot as an infantry general or a tank general. The Avoidance of AA sounds really darn good including the half-cost. It's just that I never use my air force attacks on an AA unit (including other ships) unless I play in the Pacific missions or missions that have mostly water terrain and ships for you to use, and where you have to fight a lot of enemy AA ships, I would never use an air force general ON LAND, because that money (even if the cost of air attacks is halved) is better off spent on replenishing/recruiting/SF as your land/sea units (including generals) can die or lose SF easily in almost all battles. Your other units (specially heavy tanks) can do a better job at eliminating turtling AA units in cities or grouping together with other units. At least for me, I prioritize my air force on mostly tanks, artilleries, and weaker infantry. Would be cool to have Spaatz, but I don't recommend anyone to use him on a carrier because that limits his (ridiculously high) damage output by making him use only two attacks at a time instead of the countless amounts of attacks he can do on an airport ON LAND if you have sufficient money (which can be scarce in some battles). Sidenote: I often times use my air force on very weak units (one-shot away from dying) so that either I don't have to clean them up by sacrificing time or my AI allies'. Spaatz can do the job as twice as much though ... but he's a behind a paywall lmao xd I think you're thinking about this all wrong. Yeah, if you use Spaatz the same way you use Dowding, then Dowding is better. But the whole point of Spaatz is that you *don't* use him the way you do Dowding. In a naval battle, the most powerful ships are battleships. They're also the only ships your own battleships can't hit without being hit back. Fighting battleships sucks. Wouldn't it be great if Dowding could take them out from a distance? But no. Thanks to AA, carriers also suck against battleships (though the morale hit is still really good). So Dowding is reduced to sniping the destroyers and subs - the weakest units in the enemy fleet and the ones your other ships are best equipped to deal with. Spaatz is a game changer (and even game breaker), because instead of being limited to the ships it's good against, now you can use your carrier against the ships you actually *want* to use it against. Also you can take out coastal artillery even with AA (AA units on coastal artillery are the worst if you can't get land forces there). Same deal with land battles. I almost never use an air general on land - just not worth it, especially when your air general is Arnold. But Spaatz just hits so hard and so often that now it makes sense, and is actually OP.
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Post by nikomachos on Nov 29, 2022 16:08:45 GMT
he is obviously better than dowding but to therons last point of seldom deploying air gens to land units... that comes as a surpise. may be the case for most of the allied missions but i had instances of halesly on inf even there. but most of all in axis i several times deployed both kesselring and yamashita on paratroopers with exceptional success. maybe you were not talking about axis though bc you were comparing to dowding and allies only. so just saying that low income in many missions even without spaatz? hardly. i just dont replenish ships its unreasonably expensive xD.
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Post by Theron of Acragas on Nov 29, 2022 16:57:15 GMT
he is obviously better than dowding but to therons last point of seldom deploying air gens to land units... that comes as a surpise. may be the case for most of the allied missions but i had instances of halesly on inf even there. but most of all in axis i several times deployed both kesselring and yamashita on paratroopers with exceptional success. maybe you were not talking about axis though bc you were comparing to dowding and allies only. so just saying that low income in many missions even without spaatz? hardly. i just dont replenish ships its unreasonably expensive xD. Perhaps it's not the theoretical best way to play, but I don't use air generals because I don't have any good ones, and I don't have any good ones because I don't need them. I perfect cleared the Allied campaign with just Roko and MacArthur, Axis side I've only bought Guderian and Leeb and so far that's all I've needed. The Elite campaign might change things. But if air generals on land units become more useful, that just makes Spaatz even more OP.
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Post by nikomachos on Nov 29, 2022 19:11:59 GMT
he is obviously better than dowding but to therons last point of seldom deploying air gens to land units... that comes as a surpise. may be the case for most of the allied missions but i had instances of halesly on inf even there. but most of all in axis i several times deployed both kesselring and yamashita on paratroopers with exceptional success. maybe you were not talking about axis though bc you were comparing to dowding and allies only. so just saying that low income in many missions even without spaatz? hardly. i just dont replenish ships its unreasonably expensive xD. Perhaps it's not the theoretical best way to play, but I don't use air generals because I don't have any good ones, and I don't have any good ones because I don't need them. I perfect cleared the Allied campaign with just Roko and MacArthur, Axis side I've only bought Guderian and Leeb and so far that's all I've needed. The Elite campaign might change things. But if air generals on land units become more useful, that just makes Spaatz even more OP. agree, we dont need them fancy airgens xD. first time round playing pacifik 1942 i didnt have any air gens either bc it was so early in the game. but especially both pacifik theaters i replayed several times also with air gen focused approach just for the feels. if you are playing the ultimate island-hoping setting might as well island hop, airstrike and parachute like crazy. we dont need them. but they are still fun. it was like playing two different campaigns elite was easier than the late hard campaigns overall. but maybe just bc around then i had installed the upgrade that brought hp bonus to gens... now, to my regret.
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