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Post by weebo007 on Dec 3, 2022 10:53:51 GMT
I want to see how much damage reduction i can stack
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Post by Louis Gabriel Suchet on Dec 4, 2022 23:17:11 GMT
I want to see how much damage reduction i can stack I definitely feel like it does. My Richard has lvl 2 lvl 4 damage reduction gems, plus the golden 15% damage reduction armor. He still receives 40-50 damage from archers and infantry counterattack (sometimes more), and when they attack him normally they deal 100-200 damage (although sometimes it even goes to 400-500 damage). Even for generals like Barbarossa, put on a Teutonic knight with 3 stack lvl 4 damage reduction gems plus armor plus unique weapon he still receives lots of damage from counterattack and normal attack. With this information I feel like there has to be a cap for damage reduction idk |
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Post by conkueror on Dec 5, 2022 0:56:23 GMT
If there really is a limit please someone tell me. I am running Richard with +15% reduction armor and 3 lvl4 green gems...
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Post by hrabrimalitoster on Dec 5, 2022 17:29:40 GMT
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Post by hrabrimalitoster on Dec 5, 2022 17:37:41 GMT
To conclude, the more green gems you have, the less damage you'll take, but you'll also deal less damage if you ignore combos for gems, red and blue/yellow/purple gems. Balance is most important.
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Post by lafluth on Dec 5, 2022 21:56:05 GMT
Do I read it correctly that in this instance upgrading from 0% to 15% dmg reduction made a huge difference, but 15% to 45% made less of an impact!?
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Post by hrabrimalitoster on Dec 6, 2022 1:10:28 GMT
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Post by Louis Gabriel Suchet on Dec 6, 2022 2:00:42 GMT
To conclude, the more green gems you have, the less damage you'll take, but you'll also deal less damage if you ignore combos for gems, red and blue/yellow/purple gems. Balance is most important. There doesn't seem to be much of a difference between equipping ALL 3 damage reduction gems on every item compared to having just 3 damage reduction gems on one item. This confirms my suspicion that there is a damage reduction cap (most likely), OR that damage reduction negatively scales (meaning the more damage reduction you add, the less effective it is, which doesn't make sense given the description is just a base value of 3% for example). |
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Post by Louis Gabriel Suchet on Dec 6, 2022 2:03:14 GMT
Yes this is interesting, I wonder whether having all damage reduction gems or all Cav. ability gems (in this case, since you are using Alexander Nevsky) will be more effective? Ability boosting gems give armor, since every 4 ability points adds 1 point of armor (I think). If there is a cap on damage reduction, or it negatively scales, then having all Cav. ability gems (providing both armor AND damage) would be more effective I think. |
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Post by jonblend on Dec 6, 2022 6:05:59 GMT
Reduction from equipment is added within the slots and to the base value but the 3 total reduction values are then multiplied
For example unique weapon with 22% reduction and 3 lv5 gems adds up to 37% (or a 0.63 factor).
Let‘s say the other items give 0.7 and 0.8 respectively. Also our gen is an emperor, thus contributing another 0.8
-> 0.63*0.7*0.8 *0.8= 0.282
Now imagine we take 2 gems away from the third equipment, giving it 0.9
-> 0.63*0.7*0.8 *0.9= 0.318
We removed „10% reduction“ but actually it only has a 3.6% effect.
Reduction% from Defense scales with 75/(75+def)
def = unit defense + 1/3 * capability points for that unit
Example:
Unit defense is 195 and capability 90. This leads to total def 225 (=195+90/3) and reduction from def is then 0.25.
Without capability points it would have been 0.278 and if we had 300 capability points then it’d be 0.20
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Post by lafluth on Dec 6, 2022 7:54:36 GMT
This is very interesting, thank you.
What this seems to suggest to me is that the initial def reductions have more weight whereas incremental reductions have less and less of an impact as you add them (which was indeed the case in the trial posts in this thread).
I might actually change some of my gen set ups.
Will need to do calculations now on 1 extra dmg reduction gem vs. capability gem…
Also, do we think the same mechanisms and therefore conclusions apply for attack of units, gems and capability points?
Ps: if I understood correctly your second numerical example has a typo, should read 0.63*0.7*0.9*0.8=0.318
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Post by conkueror on Dec 6, 2022 8:16:38 GMT
Oh, might take some gems off my Richard then...
What would we the ideal amount on dmg reduction then?
And does this also apply on red gems? Are capability gems better after all, since they add damage reduction too?
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Post by stoic on Dec 6, 2022 8:22:22 GMT
Oh, might take some gems off my Richard then... What would we the ideal amount on dmg reduction then? And does this also apply on red gems? Are capability gems better after all, since they add damage reduction too? I think green gems still have some value for cavalry generals like Nevsky, Alfred, etc, since we can use them in combination with two cavalry capability gems to unlock "Charging cavalry expert" skill.   |
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Post by lafluth on Dec 6, 2022 10:36:32 GMT
Ok, here we go, some calcs:   |
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Post by lafluth on Dec 6, 2022 10:54:47 GMT
My take-aways are as follow:
- The more defence bonus is added the less valuable the incremental defence bonus becomes (whether via additional equipment or adding a defence gem)
- A defence gem will provide about 4 to 5 times the defence bonus gained from an equivalent level capability gem (and about 8 times for the first equipment added with defence bonus!)
- Increasing base defence points of a unit by about 20 is roughly equivalent to one level 3 defence gem
- Increasing base defence points of a unit by about 10 is roughly equivalent to 2x level 3 capability gems
- At a given unit level, the impact of adding more capability points is more or less linear (ie the impact of the capability added does not decrease as capability goes up)
- As unit levels go up, the impact of a capability gem decreases quite significantly
So it confirms things we already knew, and also make sense from a game-design perspective:
- Unit levels are probably the best way to upgrade overall impact
- A "balanced" general is more efficient at using resources vs. a gen focusing heavily on either offence or defence [this is the big news for me, I will probably transfer some equipment and gems around based on this]
- Def gems boost defence quite a bit more than capability gems (and presumably similarly for atk gems too)
In addition, it would seem that the new rank-boosting level gem would therefore be much more beneficial than a capability gem.
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