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Post by lafluth on Dec 11, 2022 9:48:24 GMT
Hi all,
Figured I would list a bunch of things I am wondering about, if anyone knows the answer. Nothing is really crucial but would be nice to know!
1. what is water damage (heraldry bonus that can be selected in battle mode in territory section)??
2. Attack / counter-attack order? I seem to understand that when infy attacks archers for instance, the dmg of defending archers is done first, and then the attack of infy is calculated on the basis of the reduced infy troops. Is there an order of priority for atk / def for all types of units?
3. What is the “shoot” ability of archer units (“prioritize group attacks in battles, targets cannot counterattack”)?
4. What is “counter” of defence infantry (“chance of dealing damage to back row enemies”)? Is it the same as detour but applied to counter-attack? Or does it mean counter attack damage is applied to all attacking units, not just the front one?
5. What is a “multi-counterattack”? Means all units counter attack, not just the defence infantry?
6. What is “coordinated counter attack” of modao? Is it the same as “multi-counterattack” but only applies when being charged at?
7. Does the hengdao weapon of hengdaos count as single-handed sword type or double-handed sword type? Ie does it benefit from master of assault?
8. What is the effect of “charge”? Is it just a dmg buff, like 50% or something? Is it the same for infy and cav?
9. Does unit dmg (as in amount of health in a unit, I will call it troops) impact attack and defence? What I mean is all other things being equal (namely attack/def capability of the unit and gen), does a unit with 800 troops have a higher attack/def than a unit with 500 troops? How are attack and defence impacted by the amount of troops, in absolute and % remaining once some troops are lost?
10. What is a “swamp”? Does it even exist anywhere? Nevsky has “swamp commander” ability for instance
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Post by conkueror on Dec 11, 2022 10:02:13 GMT
Hi all, Figured I would list a bunch of things I am wondering about, if anyone knows the answer. Nothing is really crucial but would be nice to know! 1. what is water damage (heraldry bonus that can be selected in battle mode in territory section)?? 2. Attack / counter-attack order? I seem to understand that when infy attacks archers for instance, the dmg of defending archers is done first, and then the attack of infy is calculated on the basis of the reduced infy troops. Is there an order of priority for atk / def for all types of units? 3. What is the “shoot” ability of archer units (“prioritize group attacks in battles, targets cannot counterattack”)? 4. What is “counter” of defence infantry (“chance of dealing damage to back row enemies”)? Is it the same as detour but applied to counter-attack? Or does it mean counter attack damage is applied to all attacking units, not just the front one? 5. What is a “multi-counterattack”? Means all units counter attack, not just the defence infantry? 6. What is “coordinated counter attack” of modao? Is it the same as “multi-counterattack” but only applies when being charged at? 7. Does the hengdao weapon of hengdaos count as single-handed sword type or double-handed sword type? Ie does it benefit from master of assault? 8. What is the effect of “charge”? Is it just a dmg buff, like 50% or something? Is it the same for infy and cav? 9. Does unit dmg (as in amount of health in a unit, I will call it troops) impact attack and defence? What I mean is all other things being equal (namely attack/def capability of the unit and gen), does a unit with 800 troops have a higher attack/def than a unit with 500 troops? How are attack and defence impacted by the amount of troops, in absolute and % remaining once some troops are lost? 10. What is a “swamp”? Does it even exist anywhere? Nevsky has “swamp commander” ability for instance Ok that was a lot of questions and I can answer some of them: 1. idk 2. Ranged units always attack first (if ranged attacks ranged, the attacker goes first. If melee attacks ranged, def ranged goes first. Not sure if defensive ships attack first if you attack them from shore with melee troops tho. 3. "shoot" means that whole enemy legion takes damage, not just the first unit. 4. I think it is like you said, that counter is detour in defense. 5. Multi-counterattack: yes, all def troops attack, not just first one. The supply wagon has this perk so I THINK there is a chance you can attack archers with it and not all of them will counterattack then. 6.idk 7. I think master of assault doesn't affect hengdao (master swordsman does). Tho one of them is usually still worth it even with likes of Cnut. 8. Charge is same for both and it it kinda like shoot. All enemy units take damage, but yes I think it also boosts damage, not sure how much tho. 9. Yes, troops have impact, and there is a formula for damage here somewhere, I don't remember it. 10. I quess there should be swamps somewhere but never seen one. Or didn't pay attention. Maybe the devs forgot to add them  |
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Post by lafluth on Dec 11, 2022 11:13:51 GMT
Thanks! It is a bit crazy how this game has all those complex incremental rules, ie someone spends time thinking about them and developing them, but in the end even seasoned players a) don’t really know what they do or what actually happens in the game, and b) therefore just brute force wins either with unit level or war drums.
It is a bit of a shame because in theory one could spend 5mn before each move, considering all implications and effects of the various mechanics, if there were like 10 enemies to defeat in a level. But what we get is just swarms of enemies that need to be dealt with using mindless force. At least that is the way it seems to be going the more we progress in campaigns and hero legends.
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Post by stoic on Dec 11, 2022 11:31:59 GMT
Here it is how swamps are looking like  |
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Post by Erich on Dec 11, 2022 11:34:56 GMT
Here it is how swamps are looking like Wow, idk why they set traps for my Shock Cav |
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Post by stoic on Dec 11, 2022 11:50:03 GMT
Here it is how swamps are looking like Wow, idk why they set traps for my Shock Cav Worst of all it is visually impossible to see the difference between plains and swamps |
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Post by nikomachos on Dec 11, 2022 12:16:02 GMT
there is lots of swamp in the latest update actually. even conquest century of iron has swamptile(s) eg ireland south of roscommon but it might be bugy bc its picture is weird. charge: attacks each unit in legion seperatly. damage formula is availabke in this thread i think its the correct one but their was much experimenting and theories around it and i dont remember everything. european-war-4.boards.net/thread/17906/ew-7-generals-skills-guide?q=formula |
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Post by Erich on Dec 11, 2022 12:22:34 GMT
Worst of all it is visually impossible to see the difference between plains and swamps Yay, maybe they feel like it’s time to nerf the Charge Cav and Charge perk, but they can’t do it in changing unit stats, just find another secret way 🤪 |
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Post by nikomachos on Dec 11, 2022 12:26:07 GMT
Worst of all it is visually impossible to see the difference between plains and swamps Yay, maybe they feel like it’s time to nerf the Charge Cav and Charge perk, but they can’t do it in changing unit stats, just find another secret way 🤪 xD like making all enemies elite legions with high level def gear? i think that might do the trick #latest update |
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Post by 𝓐𝓲𝓼𝓪𝓴𝓪 on Dec 11, 2022 14:41:46 GMT
For the unanswered questions:
1. Water damage are damages you deal in naval combat
6. Similar to multicounterattack but the damages are higher for each Modao units up to 3
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Post by jonblend on Dec 12, 2022 21:26:01 GMT
Hi all, Figured I would list a bunch of things I am wondering about, if anyone knows the answer. Nothing is really crucial but would be nice to know! 1. what is water damage (heraldry bonus that can be selected in battle mode in territory section)?? 2. Attack / counter-attack order? I seem to understand that when infy attacks archers for instance, the dmg of defending archers is done first, and then the attack of infy is calculated on the basis of the reduced infy troops. Is there an order of priority for atk / def for all types of units? 3. What is the “shoot” ability of archer units (“prioritize group attacks in battles, targets cannot counterattack”)? 4. What is “counter” of defence infantry (“chance of dealing damage to back row enemies”)? Is it the same as detour but applied to counter-attack? Or does it mean counter attack damage is applied to all attacking units, not just the front one? 5. What is a “multi-counterattack”? Means all units counter attack, not just the defence infantry? 6. What is “coordinated counter attack” of modao? Is it the same as “multi-counterattack” but only applies when being charged at? 7. Does the hengdao weapon of hengdaos count as single-handed sword type or double-handed sword type? Ie does it benefit from master of assault? 8. What is the effect of “charge”? Is it just a dmg buff, like 50% or something? Is it the same for infy and cav? 9. Does unit dmg (as in amount of health in a unit, I will call it troops) impact attack and defence? What I mean is all other things being equal (namely attack/def capability of the unit and gen), does a unit with 800 troops have a higher attack/def than a unit with 500 troops? How are attack and defence impacted by the amount of troops, in absolute and % remaining once some troops are lost? 10. What is a “swamp”? Does it even exist anywhere? Nevsky has “swamp commander” ability for instance As you stated earlier, the game doesn't really force us to hunt for every percentage point because there is always the option to increase unit levels, gem levels, buy better generals or simply use war drums. Intuition and tactics/proper skill use and trying again with a different strategy can compensate enough even if we don't have the highest and best units and equipment.
While it is good (and necessary) that we don't need these 5 minutes before every move we make, people who want to know "what holds the world together at its core" (like myself:-)) might be frustrated by what little is actually known and the continuous changes over multiple updates.
The most prominent tool we can use for understanding game mechanics while remaining on the surface is damage testing. You try to think of a scenario where one of your 10 questions would show effect and compare it to a baseline. This usually includes using Basil or Martel since their active guarantees maximal output, thus not bothering us with randomized results and they have no overlapping skills. The latter is good in the hengdao case "master swordsman vs. master of assault" for basil already has it.
So you would pick Martel, give him the gem combo for a skill, record damage and before testing again, rearrange the same gems so that they don't form the combo for the baseline. Whichever gem skill has increased dmg is the answer to the question. (btw it's MSw)
If your interest for solving these small puzzles is still not deterred, you might want to read into this:
It contains the damage formula and parts of it still yield good results today. While it might answer some of your other questions it might also open up a lot of new ones  (edit: not meant as "read this, it's all in there", in fact it's probably only 2, 8 and 9)
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Post by lafluth on Dec 15, 2022 19:43:36 GMT
Thanks, will definitely have a look!
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Post by crimsonkhan on Feb 25, 2023 17:19:50 GMT
Random question, what is the Master Commander skill? Like how does it work and who has it.
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Post by lafluth on Feb 25, 2023 21:32:44 GMT
I believe it’s the reduced recruitment cost.
Belisarius has it for instance, quite helpful, especially when maxed
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Post by crimsonkhan on Feb 25, 2023 21:40:40 GMT
Thanks
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