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Post by yuanzhong on Jan 17, 2023 4:35:08 GMT
As promise, I update the newest version of units gallery now.  It's a bit slow because i need to transfer pics from phone to PC. Melee Infantry: Defense Infantry Melee Cavalry Charged Cavalry Ranged Infantry Ranged Cavalry |
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Post by nexttimebro on Jan 17, 2023 13:23:11 GMT
I might be wrong but with these numbers I don’t see any reason to boost a lot cavalry units… In comparison with Chinese infantry (both melee and defense) or IBC or Dragoons, any cavalry unit looks much weaker have lower mobility and HP stats.
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Post by hrabrimalitoster on Jan 17, 2023 13:32:55 GMT
I might be wrong but with these numbers I don’t see any reason to boost a lot cavalry units… In comparison with Chinese infantry (both melee and defense) or IBC or Dragoons, any cavalry unit looks much weaker have lower mobility and HP stats. In Templar Treasure I only used Inf Generals and Ranged Cav Generals. Cavalry Generals were simply weak to destroy the enemy from the first attack and they lost helt easily, so in my opinion you are right. I used Templars of the highest possible level at the time (LV17) and the strongest Cav Generals, Richard, Nevsky, Alfred and they simply turned out to be worse than Inf and RC. |
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Post by stoic on Jan 17, 2023 14:07:10 GMT
That's why I decided to concentrate all my efforts on JBC at the moment. With JBC in a legion of Nevsky or Alfred it is a guaranteed double attack after moving to the target. It is enough to kill or severely damage the most dangerous opponents like Richard, for example. Of course, they will die next turn, but I think it is a good trade-off nonetheless. Here's an example   |
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Post by hrabrimalitoster on Jan 17, 2023 15:30:07 GMT
stoic It's not just about Temple Treasure, in the new Challenge Conquest, Timur, El Cid with RC units are far more useful because they destroy a large number of enemies through counterattacks, while Cavalry Generals are practically useless during the opponent's move and are easily killed if we don't pay attention to where we position them. I am not saying that they are useless, but RC and Inf are more useful and their possibility of survival is greater.
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Post by stoic on Jan 17, 2023 16:05:08 GMT
stoic It's not just about Temple Treasure, in the new Challenge Conquest, Timur, El Cid with RC units are far more useful because they destroy a large number of enemies through counterattacks, while Cavalry Generals are practically useless during the opponent's move and are easily killed if we don't pay attention to where we position them. I am not saying that they are useless, but RC and Inf are more useful and their possibility of survival is greater. Yes, that's true. Counterattack is very important. Cavalry generals are nothing more than sitting ducks when they are under attack. Even the best ones like Richard. |
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Post by andrei on Jan 17, 2023 18:45:41 GMT
Gendarme Knights. Are they OP? They reduce enemy unit's attributes. We need someone to calculate what is the real effect on the damage. jonblend , where are You -20 att and -10 deff for ranged infantry -10 att and -20 deff for melee infantry -10 att and -10 deff for others |
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Post by stoic on Jan 18, 2023 9:03:59 GMT
Gendarme Knights. Are they OP? They reduce enemy unit's attributes. We need someone to calculate what is the real effect on the damage. jonblend , where are You -20 att and -10 deff for ranged infantry -10 att and -20 deff for melee infantry -10 att and -10 deff for others Not too impressive... |
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Post by jonblend on Jan 20, 2023 2:45:33 GMT
Gendarme Knights. Are they OP? They reduce enemy unit's attributes. We need someone to calculate what is the real effect on the damage. jonblend , where are You -20 att and -10 deff for ranged infantry -10 att and -20 deff for melee infantry -10 att and -10 deff for others Ha, I didn't even notice while playing normal campaign. Does this happen after attacking and stick like a defuff, can other units profit as well or is it only taken into account when gendarme/its legion attacks?
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Post by andrei on Jan 20, 2023 7:24:45 GMT
Gendarme Knights. Are they OP? They reduce enemy unit's attributes. We need someone to calculate what is the real effect on the damage. jonblend , where are You -20 att and -10 deff for ranged infantry -10 att and -20 deff for melee infantry -10 att and -10 deff for others Ha, I didn't even notice while playing normal campaign. Does this happen after attacking and stick like a defuff, can other units profit as well or is it only taken into account when gendarme/its legion attacks?
The effect is on the enemy units when Gendarme is around (like negative aura) |
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Post by jonblend on Jan 20, 2023 17:01:41 GMT
Ha, I didn't even notice while playing normal campaign. Does this happen after attacking and stick like a defuff, can other units profit as well or is it only taken into account when gendarme/its legion attacks?
The effect is on the enemy units when Gendarme is around (like negative aura) I see. The problem with fixed value effects (rather than percentage based) is that we always need examples since 10 less from 100 is different than 10 less from 200 and so on.
But let's compare these two generic cases.
- dmg dealt to a unit with 100 def is set to 100%; reduction bsed on defense in this case 75/(75+100)= 0.4286
- now we take 10 away -> 90 defense; reduction is 75/(75+90)=0.4556; new damage is (75+100)/(75+90)=1.061
- So, for a 100 def target, reducing its def by 10 equals a ~6% damage boost. (100 def is mostly weak units without general)
- For a 200 def target, it would be (75+200)/(75+190)=1.038
Likewise for different base defense and 20 pts taken away.
The higher the base defense, the smaller the effect of a fixed amount of points taken away.
Here some visualization:
attack boost due to def-10 compared to Templars' 1.05 perk.
defense ranges from unit def as seen in the gallery to (unit def + gen_capability/3)
and here dmg reduction due to atk-10 compared to teutonic knights' 0.95 perk. atk ranges from unit atk as seen in the gallery to (unit atk + gen_capability/2)  |
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Post by jonblend on Jan 20, 2023 18:35:25 GMT
I did some more research, seems like the guys on discord already examined this. Charge, counter, detour and dodge chance are also lowered by 10/20%, making Gendarme really useful to be around. Now, getting them into fighting shape is another story.. 
Melee Infantry: Attack -10, Defense -20, Charge -10%, Detour -10%
Defense Infantry: Attack -10, Defense -10, Counter -20%
Melee Cavalry: Attack -10, Defense -10, Charge -10%, Detour -20%
Charge Cavalry: Attack -10, Defense -10, Charge -20%, Detour -10%
Range Infantry: Attack -20, Defense -10
Range Cavalry: Attack -10, Defense -10, Dodge -20%
quoted from CatoDaBreado
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Post by andrei on Jan 20, 2023 19:27:39 GMT
I did some more research, seems like the guys on discord already examined this. Charge, counter, detour and dodge chance are also lowered by 10/20%, making Gendarme really useful to be around. Now, getting them into fighting shape is another story.. Looks like for Richard for example best combo will be: Templars, JBC, Gendarme. Now we only need to wait for the introduction of 5th skill for tier6 units |
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Post by jonblend on Jan 20, 2023 19:44:16 GMT
I did some more research, seems like the guys on discord already examined this. Charge, counter, detour and dodge chance are also lowered by 10/20%, making Gendarme really useful to be around. Now, getting them into fighting shape is another story.. Looks like for Richard for example best combo will be: Templars, JBC, Gendarme. Now we only need to wait for the introduction of 5th skill for tier6 units Yes, and Li Jing ideally wants the same. Every other general has to pick either Gendarme or Templar along with their special unit and JB.
But unit order places Gendarme in front of JB and after HLC, Norman, Cata, NC; so in most combinations an underleveled Gendarme as first unit is a liability. |
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Post by nexttimebro on Jan 21, 2023 11:21:15 GMT
I did some more research, seems like the guys on discord already examined this. Charge, counter, detour and dodge chance are also lowered by 10/20%, making Gendarme really useful to be around. Now, getting them into fighting shape is another story..
Melee Infantry: Attack -10, Defense -20, Charge -10%, Detour -10%
Defense Infantry: Attack -10, Defense -10, Counter -20%
Melee Cavalry: Attack -10, Defense -10, Charge -10%, Detour -20%
Charge Cavalry: Attack -10, Defense -10, Charge -20%, Detour -10%
Range Infantry: Attack -20, Defense -10
Range Cavalry: Attack -10, Defense -10, Dodge -20% quoted from CatoDaBreado
Did you do any tests for charge % when it’s over 100%? I assume that there are a lot of cases when charge is still 90-100% even after reduction |
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It's a bit slow because i need to transfer pics from phone to PC.
