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Post by resiphius on Sept 22, 2023 12:20:02 GMT
I see ET added List to the 2 star general pool, who looks like he can compete with Vatutin as a permanent auxiliary tank general, and maybe…just maybe he can even best Rommel? Any thoughts?
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Post by journeykeen on Sept 22, 2023 19:58:46 GMT
I see ET added List to the 2 star general pool, who looks like he can compete with Vatutin as a permanent auxiliary tank general, and maybe…just maybe he can even best Rommel? Any thoughts? In conquests he is tied with Rokko as the third best tank general behind Manstein and Guderian. He and Rokko can get the trio of AA, PL, and explosives with four mobility stars compared to Rommel’s three. In campaign he is third with Rokko/Rommel tied at four because he gets AA, rumor, and blitzkrieg. Blitzkrieg is excellent in campaign where health is an issue, but is much less impactful in conquests, especially 1939/43. |
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Post by YDE on Sept 23, 2023 2:07:34 GMT
List is an easy 3rd best tanker for f2p. He beats Roko and everyone else beneath him, however his biggest issue is his heavy medal price when considering everything. You'll need a lot of medals to get him viable, and that can be a massive issue for f2p. Lots of potential, but his prices holds him back, but I usually ignore price, as that's the biggest thing that can hold back potentially amazing gens.
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Post by micky on Sept 24, 2023 23:37:05 GMT
List is an easy 3rd best tanker for f2p. He beats Roko and everyone else beneath him, however his biggest issue is his heavy medal price when considering everything. You'll need a lot of medals to get him viable, and that can be a massive issue for f2p. Lots of potential, but his prices holds him back, but I usually ignore price, as that's the biggest thing that can hold back potentially amazing gens. Why do you think he beats Roko though? Top 3 skills for a tank general are Rumor, PL and AA. Roko can have all of them, while List lacks either PL or Rumor. Although Blitzkrieg and Explosives are better than TOI and Shelter, I'd still put List right below Rokossovsky for that reason. |
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Post by YDE on Sept 25, 2023 0:54:43 GMT
List is an easy 3rd best tanker for f2p. He beats Roko and everyone else beneath him, however his biggest issue is his heavy medal price when considering everything. You'll need a lot of medals to get him viable, and that can be a massive issue for f2p. Lots of potential, but his prices holds him back, but I usually ignore price, as that's the biggest thing that can hold back potentially amazing gens. Why do you think he beats Roko though? Top 3 skills for a tank general are Rumor, PL and AA. Roko can have all of them, while List lacks either PL or Rumor. Although Blitzkrieg and Explosives are better than TOI and Shelter, I'd still put List right below Rokossovsky for that reason. I have plenty of rumor gens already, and for that, yet another rumor gen seems a bit much for me. List has no useless skills while Roko has 2. List has blitz over Roko, and explosives, and AA. You're probably gonna run AA and rumor, so you lose out on blitz and explosives. Those are sacrifices I'm not willing to make. |
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Post by Nobunaga Oda on Nov 15, 2023 15:02:27 GMT
What's are your choices for List's blank slot?
Rumour is a common go-to, but staffing every gen with Rumour may not be necessary. However, we still have Warzone where it may be useful.
Explosives: Does it work on those massive fortresses? If yes, a consideration for Warzone or fort-cracking in general.
Panzer Leader: Critical hits are nice.
Crowd Tactics: Should be useful for Warzone.
If you have other suggestions, do list and explain why.
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Nov 16, 2023 16:14:32 GMT
What's are your choices for List's blank slot? Rumour is a common go-to, but staffing every gen with Rumour may not be necessary. However, we still have Warzone where it may be useful. Explosives: Does it work on those massive fortresses? If yes, a consideration for Warzone or fort-cracking in general. Panzer Leader: Critical hits are nice. Crowd Tactics: Should be useful for Warzone. If you have other suggestions, do list and explain why. List already has explosives, so PL without a doubt. |
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Post by Boss Tweed on Nov 17, 2023 7:35:03 GMT
What's are your choices for List's blank slot? Rumour is a common go-to, but staffing every gen with Rumour may not be necessary. However, we still have Warzone where it may be useful. Explosives: Does it work on those massive fortresses? If yes, a consideration for Warzone or fort-cracking in general. Panzer Leader: Critical hits are nice. Crowd Tactics: Should be useful for Warzone. If you have other suggestions, do list and explain why. Panzer leader and only panzer leader. In my opinion, all other options are suboptimal for any mode you want to play him as. Besides, by the time you want to buy List you would not want more rumor coverage, especially as Rumor is detrimental to warzone. |
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Post by YDE on Nov 19, 2023 1:33:26 GMT
What's are your choices for List's blank slot? Rumour is a common go-to, but staffing every gen with Rumour may not be necessary. However, we still have Warzone where it may be useful. Explosives: Does it work on those massive fortresses? If yes, a consideration for Warzone or fort-cracking in general. Panzer Leader: Critical hits are nice. Crowd Tactics: Should be useful for Warzone. If you have other suggestions, do list and explain why. Panzer leader and only panzer leader. In my opinion, all other options are suboptimal for any mode you want to play him as. Besides, by the time you want to buy List you would not want more rumor coverage, especially as Rumor is detrimental to warzone. Along with running rumor on any tanker outside of manstein and guderian is a bad idea. Anyone else will have their damaged hampered in some way, to the point where it does not outweigh the incentive. List, for example, loses so much dmg by picking rumor over pz leader. Gud and Manstein can run it bc they have the neccessary AA and pz leader in their preset, and running blitzless rumor while albeit not a horrible idea, it isn't very smart imo. What's that support gonna do if it gets counter attacked every turn and loses hp twice as fast as, let's say, a rumor arty gen. |
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Post by Luigi Sansonetti on Nov 24, 2023 0:50:20 GMT
I have List with Lvl 5 Panzer Leader, A. Assault, Explosives and Lvl 3 Blitzkrieg and 6 panzer stars. He hits very well on a super tank.
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Post by h132123 on Nov 28, 2023 16:25:35 GMT
I know I’m a bit late to the discussion but I would like to throw in my two cents and say why I don’t think List is as good as either Rommel or Roko.
The main problem I have with List is that while he has a lot of good tanker skills, he doesn’t have the three skills I consider essential (PL, AA, and inspiration). With these three skills plus a crowd tactics general buffing your tank general I found that you can now somewhat reliably one shot super arty and low teir tanks in hard barb event. Even outside of this one very specific example, the difference in damage is still very noticeable if you end up skipping on either inspiration or PL. While both skills cannot garentee a higher form of damage (high morale or crit) they make them much more reliable to the point where it’s not bad to just assume most attacks will happen under the influence of all these multipliers. And these buffs are pretty significant too. Inspiration multiplies the base attack by 1.15*1.25 (Inspiration + high moral buff) while crits mutiply the base damage by 2.0 (with max red ribbon).
And sure he has good skills for general use but without all these skills at the same time he just cannot achieve the same level of damage Roko or Rommel can achieve to become a true crowd clearer.
And I guess that’s is the one kicker. My very specific strategy requires a PL leader medal for crits to be reliable. I’m not so sure without the PL leader medal because the entire hinge of this strategy (PL, AA, Inspiration) relies on one-shotting large hordes of enemies to heal back whatever damage you taken without blitzkrieg.
Overall, I think List is a very good general and perhaps better then Rommel or Roko if ribbons and medals is not put into consideration, but with medals and ribbons, either Rommel or Roko can fill in on a role that List cannot.
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Post by YDE on Nov 28, 2023 17:24:00 GMT
I know I’m a bit late to the discussion but I would like to throw in my two cents and say why I don’t think List is as good as either Rommel or Roko. The main problem I have with List is that while he has a lot of good tanker skills, he doesn’t have the three skills I consider essential (PL, AA, and inspiration). With these three skills plus a crowd tactics general buffing your tank general I found that you can now somewhat reliably one shot super arty and low teir tanks in hard barb event. Even outside of this one very specific example, the difference in damage is still very noticeable if you end up skipping on either inspiration or PL. While both skills cannot garentee a higher form of damage (high morale or crit) they make them much more reliable to the point where it’s not bad to just assume most attacks will happen under the influence of all these multipliers. And these buffs are pretty significant too. Inspiration multiplies the base attack by 1.15*1.25 (Inspiration + high moral buff) while crits mutiply the base damage by 2.0 (with max red ribbon). And sure he has good skills for general use but without all these skills at the same time he just cannot achieve the same level of damage Roko or Rommel can achieve to become a true crowd clearer. And I guess that’s is the one kicker. My very specific strategy requires a PL leader medal for crits to be reliable. I’m not so sure without the PL leader medal because the entire hinge of this strategy (PL, AA, Inspiration) relies on one-shotting large hordes of enemies to heal back whatever damage you taken without blitzkrieg. Overall, I think List is a very good general and perhaps better then Rommel or Roko if ribbons and medals is not put into consideration, but with medals and ribbons, either Rommel or Roko can fill in on a role that List cannot. Tl;Dr Rommel easily better due to title and crossfire, and List and Roko fulfill two different roles and as such shouldn't be compared to one another. Going by this logic of a tanker needing aa, plains, and inspiration, then none of the three tankers you listed. Meet the requirement. Rommel can run both but sacrifices leader, which is too much of a drawback imo. Roko needs to run AA, thus leaving you w/ plains or inspiring, and List, well, you already explained List can't. The reason Rommel is better than Roko and List is the title and the access to medal buffed crossfire. Crossfire makes him a savage, and in defense missions, it's quite the handy thing to have. Slap him on a city and you won't need to worry about that front. They'll be too busy blasting away at Rommel and failing miserably. The real debate is Roko v List. Roko starts with a nice leader, but nigh-useless tides and shelter, while List starts with AA, explosives, and blitz. Roko gets aa and preferably inspiring, as my tests have shown inspiring to boost leader dmg. List gets leader skill. Now the question is simply a matter of preference. Do you prefer explo and blitz, a better set for frontier and warzone? Or do you prefer inspiring over explo and blitz, adding some extra damage and leader buffs? Personally, I say Monty. It's Rommel but plains instead of inspiring, and my tests done via the official ET discord server have shown boosted plains to be stronger than inspiring. I think sacrificing leader for plains/inspiring just mitigate what you're trying to add by the latter two skills. Roko and List aren't perfect, and it's just to personal preference what you decide. They perform different roles, and as such, I don't see it as fair to compare the two. List is a better WZ and Frontier, Roko a better crowd cleaner. |
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Post by h132123 on Nov 29, 2023 0:02:45 GMT
I know I’m a bit late to the discussion but I would like to throw in my two cents and say why I don’t think List is as good as either Rommel or Roko. The main problem I have with List is that while he has a lot of good tanker skills, he doesn’t have the three skills I consider essential (PL, AA, and inspiration). With these three skills plus a crowd tactics general buffing your tank general I found that you can now somewhat reliably one shot super arty and low teir tanks in hard barb event. Even outside of this one very specific example, the difference in damage is still very noticeable if you end up skipping on either inspiration or PL. While both skills cannot garentee a higher form of damage (high morale or crit) they make them much more reliable to the point where it’s not bad to just assume most attacks will happen under the influence of all these multipliers. And these buffs are pretty significant too. Inspiration multiplies the base attack by 1.15*1.25 (Inspiration + high moral buff) while crits mutiply the base damage by 2.0 (with max red ribbon). And sure he has good skills for general use but without all these skills at the same time he just cannot achieve the same level of damage Roko or Rommel can achieve to become a true crowd clearer. And I guess that’s is the one kicker. My very specific strategy requires a PL leader medal for crits to be reliable. I’m not so sure without the PL leader medal because the entire hinge of this strategy (PL, AA, Inspiration) relies on one-shotting large hordes of enemies to heal back whatever damage you taken without blitzkrieg. Overall, I think List is a very good general and perhaps better then Rommel or Roko if ribbons and medals is not put into consideration, but with medals and ribbons, either Rommel or Roko can fill in on a role that List cannot. Tl;Dr Rommel easily better due to title and crossfire, and List and Roko fulfill two different roles and as such shouldn't be compared to one another. Going by this logic of a tanker needing aa, plains, and inspiration, then none of the three tankers you listed. Meet the requirement. Rommel can run both but sacrifices leader, which is too much of a drawback imo. Roko needs to run AA, thus leaving you w/ plains or inspiring, and List, well, you already explained List can't. The reason Rommel is better than Roko and List is the title and the access to medal buffed crossfire. Crossfire makes him a savage, and in defense missions, it's quite the handy thing to have. Slap him on a city and you won't need to worry about that front. They'll be too busy blasting away at Rommel and failing miserably. The real debate is Roko v List. Roko starts with a nice leader, but nigh-useless tides and shelter, while List starts with AA, explosives, and blitz. Roko gets aa and preferably inspiring, as my tests have shown inspiring to boost leader dmg. List gets leader skill. Now the question is simply a matter of preference. Do you prefer explo and blitz, a better set for frontier and warzone? Or do you prefer inspiring over explo and blitz, adding some extra damage and leader buffs? Personally, I say Monty. It's Rommel but plains instead of inspiring, and my tests done via the official ET discord server have shown boosted plains to be stronger than inspiring. I think sacrificing leader for plains/inspiring just mitigate what you're trying to add by the latter two skills. Roko and List aren't perfect, and it's just to personal preference what you decide. They perform different roles, and as such, I don't see it as fair to compare the two. List is a better WZ and Frontier, Roko a better crowd cleaner. When I said PL I meant Panzer leader. Besides that I agree with most of what you said except for crossfire. I haven’t tested this but from personal expirence crossfire isn’t as good as you have described it. Even with the huge damage it can do in return, often enemies have enough strength to do some real damage to Rommel and getting 5-20 free hits with no retaliation is much better then getting hit at all even if it deals +60% damage. Personally I believe that crossfire brings Rommel solidly above Roko or List but I don’t think it’s as good as you described it. |
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Post by YDE on Nov 29, 2023 0:17:47 GMT
Tl;Dr Rommel easily better due to title and crossfire, and List and Roko fulfill two different roles and as such shouldn't be compared to one another. Going by this logic of a tanker needing aa, plains, and inspiration, then none of the three tankers you listed. Meet the requirement. Rommel can run both but sacrifices leader, which is too much of a drawback imo. Roko needs to run AA, thus leaving you w/ plains or inspiring, and List, well, you already explained List can't. The reason Rommel is better than Roko and List is the title and the access to medal buffed crossfire. Crossfire makes him a savage, and in defense missions, it's quite the handy thing to have. Slap him on a city and you won't need to worry about that front. They'll be too busy blasting away at Rommel and failing miserably. The real debate is Roko v List. Roko starts with a nice leader, but nigh-useless tides and shelter, while List starts with AA, explosives, and blitz. Roko gets aa and preferably inspiring, as my tests have shown inspiring to boost leader dmg. List gets leader skill. Now the question is simply a matter of preference. Do you prefer explo and blitz, a better set for frontier and warzone? Or do you prefer inspiring over explo and blitz, adding some extra damage and leader buffs? Personally, I say Monty. It's Rommel but plains instead of inspiring, and my tests done via the official ET discord server have shown boosted plains to be stronger than inspiring. I think sacrificing leader for plains/inspiring just mitigate what you're trying to add by the latter two skills. Roko and List aren't perfect, and it's just to personal preference what you decide. They perform different roles, and as such, I don't see it as fair to compare the two. List is a better WZ and Frontier, Roko a better crowd cleaner. When I said PL I meant Panzer leader. Besides that I agree with most of what you said except for crossfire. I haven’t tested this but from personal expirence crossfire isn’t as good as you have described it. Even with the huge damage it can do in return, often enemies have enough strength to do some real damage to Rommel and getting 5-20 free hits with no retaliation is much better then getting hit at all even if it deals +60% damage. Personally I believe that crossfire brings Rommel solidly above Roko or List but I don’t think it’s as good as you described it. And as you said, you haven't really tested it. Believe me when I say crossfire boosted rommel on a city does plenty good, especially in Winter war. And if it doesn't kill, even better, makes your next turn get more heals if you run plunder ribbon, which you should. |
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Post by Boss Tweed on Nov 29, 2023 5:59:30 GMT
I know I’m a bit late to the discussion but I would like to throw in my two cents and say why I don’t think List is as good as either Rommel or Roko. The main problem I have with List is that while he has a lot of good tanker skills, he doesn’t have the three skills I consider essential (PL, AA, and inspiration). With these three skills plus a crowd tactics general buffing your tank general I found that you can now somewhat reliably one shot super arty and low teir tanks in hard barb event. Even outside of this one very specific example, the difference in damage is still very noticeable if you end up skipping on either inspiration or PL. While both skills cannot garentee a higher form of damage (high morale or crit) they make them much more reliable to the point where it’s not bad to just assume most attacks will happen under the influence of all these multipliers. And these buffs are pretty significant too. Inspiration multiplies the base attack by 1.15*1.25 (Inspiration + high moral buff) while crits mutiply the base damage by 2.0 (with max red ribbon). And sure he has good skills for general use but without all these skills at the same time he just cannot achieve the same level of damage Roko or Rommel can achieve to become a true crowd clearer. And I guess that’s is the one kicker. My very specific strategy requires a PL leader medal for crits to be reliable. I’m not so sure without the PL leader medal because the entire hinge of this strategy (PL, AA, Inspiration) relies on one-shotting large hordes of enemies to heal back whatever damage you taken without blitzkrieg. Overall, I think List is a very good general and perhaps better then Rommel or Roko if ribbons and medals is not put into consideration, but with medals and ribbons, either Rommel or Roko can fill in on a role that List cannot. My main problem with List is that he is an explosives Guderian who doesn't have rumor. He costs as much as Guderian (go figure, a max silver guy costs as much as a max gold guy) and doesn't have the same damage output as Rommel or Roko since he cannot run inspiring, as you said. I would have liked a lot more from List. |
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