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Post by Dorado St. Sebastian on Mar 9, 2024 16:21:21 GMT
You say that Air Commander skill limits him in his role as Navy general. I would say, on the contrary, that it improves his chances to be useful on land. With Rumor and his Air skill his usability on land far exceeds that of other Admirals. His unique skill has two component parts. The first one is to increase his overall damage by 40% when commanding naval units. Even without the second part of this skill it is easily a huge advantage over other Admirals. The second part is to restore 5% of health every turn. Even some p2w generals have some preliminary conditions like "when the health is under 50%" and such. Here we have an unconditional heal and since Battleships have a huge amount of HP it is easily one of the best self-healing skill in the game (only IAP Marshall can beat him in this respect). So, instead of 5 Naval skills, Yamaguchi actually has 6: 5 for commanding Navy and one bonus skill that comes in handy when there aren't any waters around. You have lost focus of this debate and point of discussion which was, Yamaguchi as the Best Navy Commander. We are not discussing whether he is good or not, only that he is not the best NAVY commander. Your own words "You say....I say....improves his chances on LAND...." proves my point (btw, think Yamamoto would be better on land also). I never said Yamaguchi was not a great commander to have, but as far as the Topic of this discussion goes, and by your own words, he is not the Best Navy Commander, see others, like Eisenhower.... and his elite perks for examples. Manstein himself has the highest critical damage elite bonus perk in the game, and Marshall the best healing perks/skills. You argue the wrong points. |
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Post by Dorado St. Sebastian on Mar 9, 2024 16:49:51 GMT
Do you seriously not understand what 40% damage and 5% HP means? Yamaguchi easily beats every admiral in this game in damage and survivability. Put him on AC and he's just another general with 6* AF. This does not make him the Best Navy Commander. And i believe Manstein has the highest critical damage elite bonus perk in the game, 2nd is Eisenhower's....and Marshall has the best healing skills/perks. Yamaguchi could be one of the best Akagi AC commanders, but not total supremacy anywhere else. Even Yamamoto could be better on land as an air general, as Stoic tried to say otherwise, since Yamamoto also has 4 or 5 stars in Arty and yamaguchi's skill only works on Navy. Yamaguchi on the Akagi, is final with carpet bombing/cover and maybe sailor since the Akagi would allow him to counterattack cruiser and bts strikes and retaliate vs subs with air at least, without risk. This is where i could see him as only 'near' invincible, because this game will always provide a counter. And, btw, lets not ignore Eisenhower and his elite perks, which should not be disregarded. Lastly, its the player. Did you know ive had even my infantry general do near 800 damage? And he doesnt even have his full perks on yet. Remember the topic is about Yamaguchi being the Best Navy Commander only, not on land, or most damage, etc. Donitz could beat Eisenhower on cruisers for example, but not on ACs. Yamaguchi cannot be the best overall Navy because one skill slot is dedicated to air and Konev cannot be best Artllery because one slot is dedicated to infantry, etc. |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Mar 9, 2024 17:31:40 GMT
This does not make him the Best Navy Commander. And i believe Manstein has the highest critical damage elite bonus perk in the game, 2nd is Eisenhower's....and Marshall has the best healing skills/perks. Yamaguchi could be one of the best Akagi AC commanders, but not total supremacy anywhere else. Even Yamamoto could be better on land as an air general, as Stoic tried to say otherwise, since Yamamoto also has 4 or 5 stars in Arty and yamaguchi's skill only works on Navy. Yamaguchi on the Akagi, is final with carpet bombing/cover and maybe sailor since the Akagi would allow him to counterattack cruiser and bts strikes and retaliate vs subs with air at least, without risk. This is where i could see him as only 'near' invincible, because this game will always provide a counter. And, btw, lets not ignore Eisenhower and his elite perks, which should not be disregarded. Lastly, its the player. Did you know ive had even my infantry general do near 800 damage? And he doesnt even have his full perks on yet. Remember the topic is about Yamaguchi being the Best Navy Commander only, not on land, or most damage, etc. Donitz could beat Eisenhower on cruisers for example, but not on ACs. Yamaguchi cannot be the best overall Navy because one skill slot is dedicated to air. Konev cannot be best Artllery because one slot is dedicated to infantry, etc. That does make Yamaguchi the best admiral, with the only competitor being Eisenhower on elite ships with his extra range. 40% damage can easily surpass Donitz's 6 attack, and 5% HP regen per hit means Yamaguchi beats Donitz in HP regen as long as the unit's max HP is at least 266. The only advantages Donitz have compared to Yamamoto are Wolfpack and movement, but we have Darlan for those. Naval Assault is just that overpowered. On AC Yamaguchi doesn't stand out. 6* AF with 2 F2P AF skills, that's not enough to compete with Chennault, let alone the IAP air generals. |
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Post by stoic on Mar 9, 2024 18:36:46 GMT
You say that Air Commander skill limits him in his role as Navy general. I would say, on the contrary, that it improves his chances to be useful on land. With Rumor and his Air skill his usability on land far exceeds that of other Admirals. His unique skill has two component parts. The first one is to increase his overall damage by 40% when commanding naval units. Even without the second part of this skill it is easily a huge advantage over other Admirals. The second part is to restore 5% of health every turn. Even some p2w generals have some preliminary conditions like "when the health is under 50%" and such. Here we have an unconditional heal and since Battleships have a huge amount of HP it is easily one of the best self-healing skill in the game (only IAP Marshall can beat him in this respect). So, instead of 5 Naval skills, Yamaguchi actually has 6: 5 for commanding Navy and one bonus skill that comes in handy when there aren't any waters around. You have lost focus of this debate and point of discussion which was, Yamaguchi as the Best Navy Commander. We are not discussing whether he is good or not, only that he is not the best NAVY commander. Your own words "You say....I say....improves his chances on LAND...." proves my point (btw, think Yamamoto would be better on land also). I never said Yamaguchi was not a great commander to have, but as far as the Topic of this discussion goes, and by your own words, he is not the Best Navy Commander, see others, like Eisenhower.... and his elite perks for examples. Manstein himself has the highest critical damage elite bonus perk in the game, and Marshall the best healing perks/skills. You argue the wrong points. By my words  he is the best Navy Commander who (in comparison to Doenitz and Raeder) can be used in land battles when necessary. I think you try to defend the lost cause simply because it is impossible to deny that his unique skill is the single best skill of the Navy. Do we have an agreement on that? Does any of his competitors have anything equal? Our evaluation of Yamaguchi depends on how do we answer these questions. Because logically a general with the best Naval skill has fairly high chances to be the best Admiral. Let's suppose that only one general had Armoured Assault as his unique skill. Wouldn't we call him the best Tank general because of that? And Naval Assault is a better version of AA. Not all skills in the game are equal. Some skills are decent, some good and some really OP. In my opinion, Naval Assault is an OP skill. It increases both the damage and survivability. Even if Yamaguchi could have only NA and FL he still would be counted among the best Navy generals. |
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Post by Airi Momoi on Mar 10, 2024 7:56:33 GMT
May I put in some of my thoughts?
I'm nowhere near as good as you all in this game, but I find myself agreeing with the premise that Yamaguchi belongs on battleships, pretty ironic given that historically Tamon Yamaguchi was indeed an AC admiral who went down with Hiryu (an aircraft carrier) at Midway.
I don't really like the argument that having an air skill disqualifies you from being the best navy general. I think it's comparable to saying that the quarter horse isn't the best at running short distances because it isn't a unicorn; as far as I know there's no general out there who has 5 good naval skills, especially one on the same level as Yamaguchi's Naval Assault.
I find that percentage damage tends to be better than flat values in these sorts of situations, which to me indicates that Yamaguchi will outshoot Donitz despite missing the sixth navy star and the wolfpack damage, and he'll outheal Donitz too with the percentage heal. I own neither but I'm sure someone could get some real empirical data on that, but I just can't see Donitz performing better than Yamaguchi on damage. And as mentioned before, Darlan serves pretty well as a wolfpack general and he isn't too hard to get, although my Darlan currently is a rumor admiral. Oh, and there's nothing stopping you from putting Wolfpack on Yamaguchi.
I don't really see why FL and Rumor/Inspiration isn't a good choice on him, but I guess if you really want to lean in on the hybrid Sailor and Carpet Bombing works, but I feel that the niche of carrier hybrid generals for even F2P already has an occupant of Yamamoto, and for IAP it expands to include Eisenhower; I think two carrier generals is pretty good all things considered.
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Post by yesildal on Mar 10, 2024 8:29:14 GMT
I also want to express my thoughts.
According to my calculations, Yamaguchi's rank may have around 1400 health in its non-upgraded state (max tech). This means that the naval assault skill can recover 70 hp per attack. Plus 40% is a great bonus. I already have darlan for wolfpack. I think the best skills will be fl and rumor .
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Post by Dorado St. Sebastian on Mar 10, 2024 13:52:35 GMT
Well, i agree to disagree. Ive even been having some fun with Chennault on an Akagi Carrier,.. in invasions first with non elite ACs, then Pacific War scenarios on Akagi ....and guess what...even Chennault brings pain with +50% damage within one hex, 100% no counter attack, and multiple attacks per round, on the Akagi.
You can argue all you like, and I'll only get Yamaguchi once I get the Akagi, which is where I would use him. But you can use him where ever you like. Hell, Ive used Yamamoto and Rundstedt as resource Air general in Cities, Rommel on Arty in Warzones, and Graziani on Alpini commandoes. So i guess you can use Yamaguchi as you wish and make any any claims you like. It will not deter me from my preferences. After 5 years of playing here, 4 of which were f2p, Ill continue playing it for my pleasure, not yours. You do you.
Until then, when Akagi is acquired, Ill stick with my Yamamoto, Nimitz, Donitz, Darlan, and Horton, with bench warming Bradley, and MacArthur or Chennault and Dowding (if additional scenario ACs) if I ever need more than 5 Navy skippers...which was maybe only twice in 5 years😊.
Apologies to all; i never went to 6th grade, but somehow, in College by 16, still graduated Magna *Auto corrected*-Laude and am a decorated, Naval Airman and war Veteran, retired. So, maybe im just stuck on using my best men, in their best positions, when it counts. Pardon me if i was wrong to believe this.
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Post by Airi Momoi on Mar 10, 2024 14:15:19 GMT
Well, i agree to disagree. Ive even been having some fun with Chennault on an Akagi Carrier,.. in invasions first with non elite ACs, then Pacific War scenarios on Akagi ....and guess what...even Chennault brings pain with +50% damage within one hex, 100% no counter attack, and multiple attacks per round, on the Akagi. You can argue all you like, and I'll only get Yamaguchi once I get the Akagi, which is where I would use him. But you can use him where ever you like. Hell, Ive used Yamamoto and Rundstedt as resource Air general in Cities, Rommel on Arty in Warzones, and Graziani on Alpini commandoes. So i guess you can use Yamaguchi as you wish and make any any claims you like. It will not deter me from my preferences. After 5 years of playing here, 4 of which were f2p, Ill continue playing it for my pleasure, not yours. You do you. Until then, when Akagi is acquired, Ill stick with my Yamamoto, Nimitz, Donitz, Darlan, and Horton, with bench warming Bradley, and MacArthur or Chennault and Dowding (if additional scenario ACs) if I ever need more than 5 Navy skippers...which was maybe only twice in 5 years😊. Apologies to all; i never went to 6th grade, but somehow, in College by 16, still graduated Magna *Auto corrected*-Laude and am a decorated, Naval Airman and war Veteran, retired. So, maybe im just stuck on using my best men, in their best positions, when it counts. Pardon me if i was wrong to believe this. Fair enough, in the end it is your personal play style and your enjoyment that matters most. There's nothing wrong with using Yamaguchi on Akagi exclusively, even if I think his best position is on battleships. As long as you're enjoying the game, that's really what matters. Also that resume is pretty impressive! Certainly more than mine. |
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Post by stoic on Mar 10, 2024 14:47:37 GMT
We are here not to teach each other how to live, of course. And, definitely, everyone enjoys life (including playing WC4) as he sees fit. I personally will purchase a general for commanding Akagi who hardly has been even mentioned in last two years  But if you say someone is the best (not the best) be prepared for reaction. You know, wind and whirlwind  |
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Post by Erich von Manstein on Mar 11, 2024 3:23:25 GMT
We are here not to teach each other how to live, of course. And, definitely, everyone enjoys life (including playing WC4) as he sees fit. I personally will purchase a general for commanding Akagi who hardly has been even mentioned in last two years But if you say someone is the best (not the best) be prepared for reaction. You know, wind and whirlwind Lemme guess, Halsey? Kuznetsov? |
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Post by stoic on Mar 11, 2024 8:12:21 GMT
We are here not to teach each other how to live, of course. And, definitely, everyone enjoys life (including playing WC4) as he sees fit. I personally will purchase a general for commanding Akagi who hardly has been even mentioned in last two years But if you say someone is the best (not the best) be prepared for reaction. You know, wind and whirlwind Lemme guess, Halsey? Kuznetsov? Yes, Halsey |
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Post by Dorado St. Sebastian on Mar 11, 2024 13:04:53 GMT
It was not I who claimed Yamaguchi the Best Navy Commander on the game. So, according to this, it seems I am the "Whirlwind."
(Oh, and on land, between these two Air/Navy commanders, Yamaguchi and Yamamoto, I would choose Yamamoto hands down, with his base explosives, Air force, and carpet bombing base skills, and Artillery stars. And maybe even Chennault above them both, depending on circumstances)
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Post by stoic on May 30, 2024 4:20:13 GMT
I think that "Fleet Leader + Fighting spirit" is now a viable option too... "Who wants to buy an unkillable general? An unkillable general for sale!" |
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Post by nimrael on May 30, 2024 5:13:48 GMT
I agree with your Idea, i Had also the idea to use Yamaguchi maybe on the new submarine, to use normal naval attack and the ranged power of missile. But it will be a Long journey to unlock this elite unit.
Oh nvm. I thought your suggested skill is the one of malinovsky, but it is from Koenig.
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Post by stoic on May 30, 2024 8:38:09 GMT
I agree with your Idea, i Had also the idea to use Yamaguchi maybe on the new submarine, to use normal naval attack and the ranged power of missile. But it will be a Long journey to unlock this elite unit. Oh nvm. I thought your suggested skill is the one of malinovsky, but it is from Koenig. I like all these new skills the problem is that I am not sure to whom to give them to |
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he is the best Navy Commander who (in comparison to Doenitz and Raeder) can be used in land battles when necessary. I think you try to defend the lost cause simply because it is impossible to deny that his unique skill is the single best skill of the Navy. Do we have an agreement on that? Does any of his competitors have anything equal?
But if you say someone is the best (not the best) be prepared for reaction. You know, wind and whirlwind 
