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Post by Bismarck on Apr 12, 2016 21:37:26 GMT
Welcoming the newest bunch of the tangled web of complexity: Governments! These are pieces of tech that you can only have one activated at a time. Any rebellion can use any government type so long as another nation has already researched it. Will post. TO CHANGE GOVERNMENTS
Step 1. Research tech that gives it
Step 2. Declare a change, costs one phase
Step 3. Lose all production and 50% army
Tribe
Requires no tech and gives no bonus
Kingdom
+2 on dies against rebels
Empire
+1 on dies against rebels
+1 on dies against people of other cultures
(If Neo Imperialist +1 on dies against rebels and +1 on dies against all enemies)
Serfdom
+10 production per region
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Post by Desophaeus on Apr 12, 2016 22:13:25 GMT
I think you meant to say Serfdom not surfdom (unless it's the kingdom of Hawaiian surfers on surfboards  ) I wouldn't advise using that term to mean medieval captailism tho. A serf is a slave that is owned by the land, and the serf works on the farms. Those lands would belong to a local lord who also owns the serfs by owning the lands itself. www.thefinertimes.com/Middle-Ages/merchants-in-the-middle-ages.htmlJust a quick random search pulled this up. This looks like a good source of inspiration for you. Like if you're doing medieval times spilt into two eras - the Dark Ages, the Renaissance, then the merchants are a lot more active in the 2nd era of medieval times. A late tech near the end would be a merchant guild that boosts the trading even better or some other effect. |
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Post by Bismarck on Apr 12, 2016 22:15:44 GMT
I think you meant to say Serfdom not surfdom (unless it's the kingdom of Hawaiian surfers on surfboards ) I wouldn't advise using that term to mean medieval captailism tho. A serf is a slave that is owned by the land, and the serf works on the farms. Those lands would belong to a local lord who also owns the serfs by owning the lands itself. www.thefinertimes.com/Middle-Ages/merchants-in-the-middle-ages.htmlJust a quick random search pulled this up. This looks like a good source of inspiration for you. Like if you're doing medieval times spilt into two eras - the Dark Ages, the Renaissance, then the merchants are a lot more active in the 2nd era of medieval times. A late tech near the end would be a merchant guild that boosts the trading even better or some other effect. No, Hawai'ians would be the goal. Jk, the idea of Serfdom was that the serfs ruled themselves. Pretty much old Democracy, actually being a Serf is called Serfdom so I see the confusion. |
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Post by Desophaeus on Apr 12, 2016 22:19:13 GMT
]Surfdom +10 production per region This would still be a good bonus to match Serfdom because of the local lords' greater authority, permitting the lords to whip the serfs for better productivity than the monarchy (kingdom) Idea! What if the monarchy govt is weak and limited in the beginning of the dark ages but at a tech unlocked (somewhere at end of DA or beginning of Renaissance) more benefits are unlocked by that technology to represent the rise of stronger kings becoming powerful kings enough to be the true ruler instead of the local lords and form the primitive nations (Kingdoms really...) at that time of history. |
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Post by Bismarck on Apr 12, 2016 22:41:15 GMT
]Surfdom +10 production per region This would still be a good bonus to match Serfdom because of the local lords' greater authority, permitting the lords to whip the serfs for better productivity than the monarchy (kingdom) Idea! What if the monarchy govt is weak and limited in the beginning of the dark ages but at a tech unlocked (somewhere at end of DA or beginning of Renaissance) more benefits are unlocked by that technology to represent the rise of stronger kings becoming powerful kings enough to be the true ruler instead of the local lords and form the primitive nations (Kingdoms really...) at that time of history. True to, that Kingdoms in ancient society were very weak, that of Britannia. Its not wonder than Briton is such a small language now. I think throughout the middle ages there should be tech to improve Kingdoms just like how Imperialism is outdated almost immediatly come the end of the Ancient era but is revived with the Neo Imperialism tech in the colonial tree. Good idea. |
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Post by Desophaeus on Apr 12, 2016 22:47:54 GMT
Oh hmm and for switching govts, there should be a cost involved. Say... a cost of PP based on population because it requires giving each cizten a brochure and a voter registration card and beat the citizen with a billy club for no apparent reason other than to make sure the people understood that their benevolent immortal king decided randomly to switch to a new form of rulership.  |
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Post by Bismarck on Apr 12, 2016 23:07:10 GMT
Oh hmm and for switching govts, there should be a cost involved. Say... a cost of PP based on population because it requires giving each cizten a brochure and a voter registration card and beat the citizen with a billy club for no apparent reason other than to make sure the people understood that their benevolent immortal king decided randomly to switch to a new form of rulership. My opinion is that when switching governments you lose half your units and it would take the whole turn. |
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Post by Desophaeus on Apr 12, 2016 23:18:38 GMT
Oh hmm and for switching govts, there should be a cost involved. Say... a cost of PP based on population because it requires giving each cizten a brochure and a voter registration card and beat the citizen with a billy club for no apparent reason other than to make sure the people understood that their benevolent immortal king decided randomly to switch to a new form of rulership. My opinion is that when switching governments you lose half your units and it would take the whole turn. What about 25% military units lost, and NPC rebels popping up in your empire, and 25% population loss? Idea! What if the switching has a different effect based on what your old govt was (or what your new govt is going to be)? This can be a modifier to be added to the basic transition effect noted above. Like additional 25% further population loss due to extreme genocide by xenophobic government. This sounds scary to switch govts, but maybe if the older forms of govts has pathetic tax rates while the newer forms being introduced has way better rates to offer a choice to the player. A player may prefer to remain a tribal Chinese country even in 18th century as his form of government. Or if an empire is weakened during the two medieval eras (Dark ages and the Renaissance) but becomes a powerful colonial empire through Neo-Imperialism and didn't switched to any other govts during the DA and Renaissance. Etc... plenty of choices to offer. |
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Post by Bismarck on Apr 12, 2016 23:24:48 GMT
My opinion is that when switching governments you lose half your units and it would take the whole turn. What about 25% military units lost, and NPC rebels popping up in your empire, and 25% population loss? Idea! What if the switching has a different effect based on what your old govt was (or what your new govt is going to be)? This can be a modifier to be added to the basic transition effect noted above. Like additional 25% further population loss due to extreme genocide by xenophobic government. This sounds scary to switch govts, but maybe if the older forms of govts has pathetic tax rates while the newer forms being introduced has way better rates to offer a choice to the player. A player may prefer to remain a tribal Chinese country even in 18th century as his form of government. Or if an empire is weakened during the two medieval eras (Dark ages and the Renaissance) but becomes a powerful colonial empire through Neo-Imperialism and didn't switched to any other govts during the DA and Renaissance. Etc... plenty of choices to offer. I'm one of the people who orginize the medieval age into three segments so mind that. I like the idea but having specified effects for switching gov'ts would be just as complicated as the tech trees. Maybe sometime later. |
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Post by Desophaeus on Apr 12, 2016 23:30:49 GMT
I thought you'd want to make this more complicated. I already got an idea about how democracy should be in ancient times, the Greeks did come up with it. The Persians, Babylonians, Assyrians and Egyptians, they all were empires. The various other smaller gvots were either tribal or petty weak kingdoms. Sparta did have a monarchy, but on scale of world history, it's a small kingdom.
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Post by General William T. Sherman on Apr 12, 2016 23:49:42 GMT
Greek Democracy is not true democracy, though, so maybe there should be multiple tiers within a democracy (all though all these tiers are still under the Democratic government):
Tiers of Democracy:
1. Presidential Dictatorship-
Ruled by a single person who claims that their country is still run by a democratic institution. +3 against rebels, -1 against enemies.
2. Oligarchic Federation:
The country is technically a democracy, but the only ones who can vote are the rich, landowners and corporate industrialists. +20 production per province, -1 against enemies, -2 against rebels.
3. Republic
The government is made for the people and by the people. +1 against enemies, +1 against rebels
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Post by Bismarck on Apr 13, 2016 0:17:17 GMT
I thought you'd want to make this more complicated. I already got an idea about how democracy should be in ancient times, the Greeks did come up with it. The Persians, Babylonians, Assyrians and Egyptians, they all were empires. The various other smaller gvots were either tribal or petty weak kingdoms. Sparta did have a monarchy, but on scale of world history, it's a small kingdom. I will have a city state government. |
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Post by Desophaeus on Apr 13, 2016 0:51:06 GMT
Greek Democracy is not true democracy, though, so maybe there should be multiple tiers within a democracy (all though all these tiers are still under the Democratic government): That's true...I was just bringing up democracy as in its origins in the Greek world. The modern day democracies should only appear much later in the tech tree. And the city-state govt, definitely a good one to put in there. The phoneicans and the greeks were quite relying on it. Romans in their roots did start out as a simple city-state before going all-out in response to defending against the Gauls, Samnnii, and Estrucans, and other Latins beside Rome, and then any other potential threats and transform into a massive empire. |
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Post by Desophaeus on Apr 13, 2016 0:58:35 GMT
Separate question: What about 25% military units lost, and NPC rebels popping up in your empire, and 25% population loss?
I think this a good one to use as the basic government switch effect. The population should be affected just much as the military gets affected.
I also think it's balanced with an anarchy-reduced (50, 75%) production effect during the period where you haven't put down the rebels. You might choose to postpone the rebel supression to deal with one external threat quickly to resolve things then go back home and crush the rebels with your army. Of course, ideally, there's no present wars and you could focus on taking down the rebels and only suffer the lost production for one turn.
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Post by General William T. Sherman on Apr 13, 2016 1:03:57 GMT
There were cases of regular democracy very early on, such as the Iroquois. They would elect heads of the confederation, and in fact they were probably more liberal and democratic than the later Europeans or Americans as they let Women vote and hold power. Granted, this was around the 1300's or so.
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