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Post by Darth Nihilus on Apr 20, 2016 15:56:42 GMT
For me as a leader Beresfored because he led the Portuguese war effort against the French and he trained them and equipped them.And as for Wellesley he was a great commander of the allies but he had many generals under his command who were just as good as him.
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Apr 20, 2016 17:39:14 GMT
For me as a leader Beresfored because he led the Portuguese war effort against the French and he trained them and equipped them.And as for Wellesley he was a great commander of the allies but he had many generals under his command who were just as good as him. Beresford organized the Portuguese army, but Wellington led the army in victories against superior French forces, most notably against Marmont in Salamanca, and against the cunning Soult in Vitoria and Toulouse. Also worth noting is the fact that Wellington organized the untrained rag-tag force he had in Waterloo and managed to hold on for long enough for Blücher to arrive. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Apr 20, 2016 19:54:53 GMT
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Post by Conrad von Hotzendorf on Apr 20, 2016 19:56:06 GMT
Wellington easy, outnumbered for most of the battle, masterfully predicted napoleon's plan to divert his reserves to the left flank and not the centre, caused the full rout of not only the old guard but the entire French army and for the most part without the backing of blucher's force
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Apr 20, 2016 20:03:09 GMT
Wellington easy, outnumbered for most of the battle, masterfully predicted napoleon's plan to divert his reserves to the left flank and not the centre, caused the full rout of not only the old guard but the entire French army and for the most part without the backing of blucher's force He had a force roughly equal to the French in Waterloo, but inexperienced. Napoleon had an army of veterans. The guard was only routed when Blucher joined, but Wellington's work was still impressive. Not to mention Salamanca and Vitoria. Beresford has no such victories to claim. And their records as civil administrators: Wellington served as an advisor to the Monarchy for years, a diplomat in Vienna, and even PM for a while without messing up. Beresford held a senior administrative position in Portugal after the war, and provoked a liberal revolt after only 5 years |
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Post by Conrad von Hotzendorf on Apr 20, 2016 21:15:30 GMT
Wellington easy, outnumbered for most of the battle, masterfully predicted napoleon's plan to divert his reserves to the left flank and not the centre, caused the full rout of not only the old guard but the entire French army and for the most part without the backing of blucher's force He had a force roughly equal to the French in Waterloo, but inexperienced. Napoleon had an army of veterans. The guard was only routed when Blucher joined, but Wellington's work was still impressive. Not to mention Salamanca and Vitoria. Beresford has no such victories to claim. And their records as civil administrators: Wellington served as an advisor to the Monarchy for years, a diplomat in Vienna, and even PM for a while without messing up. Beresford held a senior administrative position in Portugal after the war, and provoked a liberal revolt after only 5 years to my knowledge the guard was defeated by a huge volley fire by the British/Dutch line after they crested the ridge the allied forces hid behind |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Apr 20, 2016 21:25:57 GMT
He had a force roughly equal to the French in Waterloo, but inexperienced. Napoleon had an army of veterans. The guard was only routed when Blucher joined, but Wellington's work was still impressive. Not to mention Salamanca and Vitoria. Beresford has no such victories to claim. And their records as civil administrators: Wellington served as an advisor to the Monarchy for years, a diplomat in Vienna, and even PM for a while without messing up. Beresford held a senior administrative position in Portugal after the war, and provoked a liberal revolt after only 5 years to my knowledge the guard was defeated by a huge volley fire by the British/Dutch line after they crested the ridge the allied forces hid behind I'm almost certain that the old guard was deployed after the Prussians arrived on the battlefield |
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Post by Conrad von Hotzendorf on Apr 20, 2016 21:34:37 GMT
to my knowledge the guard was defeated by a huge volley fire by the British/Dutch line after they crested the ridge the allied forces hid behind I'm almost certain that the old guard was deployed after the Prussians arrived on the battlefield yes but they were sent to(hopefully) wipe out the anglo-Dutch force, napoleon told his army that the Prussians were in fact marshal Grouchy |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Apr 20, 2016 22:41:08 GMT
I'm almost certain that the old guard was deployed after the Prussians arrived on the battlefield yes but they were sent to(hopefully) wipe out the anglo-Dutch force, napoleon told his army that the Prussians were in fact marshal Grouchy I'm pretty sure that A: the Old Guard was ordered to cover the army's retreat B: We're arguing the same side (Wellington was good) |
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Post by Conrad von Hotzendorf on Apr 20, 2016 22:51:31 GMT
yes but they were sent to(hopefully) wipe out the anglo-Dutch force, napoleon told his army that the Prussians were in fact marshal Grouchy I'm pretty sure that A: the Old Guard was ordered to cover the army's retreat B: We're arguing the same side (Wellington was good) ikr but I'm dedicated to prove a point so ", the hitherto-undefeated Imperial Guard infantry. This attack, mounted at around 19:30, was intended to break through Wellington's centre and roll up his line away from the Prussians" wikipedia |
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Post by Jean Lannes on Apr 21, 2016 8:30:07 GMT
Clearly Wellington. He fought more successful and didn't take power over a country like a military dictator.
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Apr 21, 2016 15:44:24 GMT
Clearly Wellington. He fought more successful and didn't take power over a country like a military dictator. And even when he was the head of state (as PM of Britain), Wellington ruled sanely and semi-democratically |
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Post by Jean Lannes on Apr 21, 2016 22:01:51 GMT
Clearly Wellington. He fought more successful and didn't take power over a country like a military dictator. And even when he was the head of state (as PM of Britain), Wellington ruled sanely and semi-democratically As democratic as you can except from a superpower in the 19th Century |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Apr 21, 2016 22:33:15 GMT
And even when he was the head of state (as PM of Britain), Wellington ruled sanely and semi-democratically As democratic as you can except from a superpower in the 19th Century Well, Beresford was a full-on dictator after the war |
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Post by Jean Lannes on Apr 21, 2016 22:53:11 GMT
As democratic as you can except from a superpower in the 19th Century Well, Beresford was a full-on dictator after the war True, until he left and a revolution took over |
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