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Post by pathdoc on Dec 19, 2016 14:00:03 GMT
Is this even possible, or are there too few starter generals and too far to go to get to Spain and down the Italian peninsula in time?
I know I need to work on the whole "take out only selected cities and spam line infantry/light cavalry to surround, demoralise and kill" thing (I lose grip on various corners of the battle far too easily, I know), but still... I am left wondering if this is an impossible dream. I have Sophia and Fatimah now, but I think Isabella requires a lot more hurry-on (at least being Russia means I don't have to conquer Britain).
Currently playing Russia 1809; having both Fatimah and Alexander I gives me a HUGE economy boost in the early days of the war, especially when I put Fatimah in Moscow as a non-fighting economist and send Alexander to clear out Finland & then sit in Reval doing trade with his five stars & making even more money. I suspect once Finland is occupied I need to move Alexander back to Moscow ASAP, and send Fatimah out on a battlefield tour to build up all the various bases at lower cost, since she moves pretty fast, and then try to get her into Rome or Berlin. (I also need to boost her rank and nobility a lot before she's ready to risk in the field; fortunately, I have ways to do that.)
A careful look at each of the four European scenarios is required, sorting out who are my friends and my enemies and which offers the easiest route with the fewest nations to beat. The Ottomans are of course always my enemies, but depending on the map, the size of the Eastern part of that empire and the time needed to traverse it can vary quite radically.
I am beginning to understand why "Military Geography" was a thing in the various officer training schools of the day (not that it isn't vital now, but today's technology offers ways of bypassing bad terrain the Napoleonic generals could only dream of).
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Dec 19, 2016 17:24:19 GMT
Well, Russia 1806 is fast (speaking from Experience). Kutuzov cuts up France and Yermolov burns the Ottomans.
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Post by pathdoc on Dec 19, 2016 18:40:21 GMT
Well, Russia 1806 is fast (speaking from Experience). Kutuzov cuts up France and Yermolov burns the Ottomans. So IOW just take an extra couple of units along to make sure you have someone to occupy the towns after their defenders die, and see how things roll. I'll check the geography of that one out and see about giving it a shot. I've got Sophia and Fatimah already on the Kindle, so I think the low-hanging fruit is all picked there, but I am still princess-less on the Android platform, so there are gains to be had if I can do it fast enough. |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Dec 19, 2016 18:46:19 GMT
Well, Russia 1806 is fast (speaking from Experience). Kutuzov cuts up France and Yermolov burns the Ottomans. So IOW just take an extra couple of units along to make sure you have someone to occupy the towns after their defenders die, and see how things roll. I'll check the geography of that one out and see about giving it a shot. I've got Sophia and Fatimah already on the Kindle, so I think the low-hanging fruit is all picked there, but I am still princess-less on the Android platform, so there are gains to be had if I can do it fast enough. With a strong Cavalry companion for Yermolov, Isabela is feasible (believe me, I got her so) |
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Post by TK421 on Dec 19, 2016 18:53:27 GMT
I remember doing Russia 1806 in like...43ish turns? 1798 was.....possibly 39? I recall Spain being a slight pain...Pun intended.
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Post by pathdoc on Dec 19, 2016 19:24:50 GMT
So IOW just take an extra couple of units along to make sure you have someone to occupy the towns after their defenders die, and see how things roll. I'll check the geography of that one out and see about giving it a shot. I've got Sophia and Fatimah already on the Kindle, so I think the low-hanging fruit is all picked there, but I am still princess-less on the Android platform, so there are gains to be had if I can do it fast enough. With a strong Cavalry companion for Yermolov, Isabela is feasible (believe me, I got her so) I currently have Dumouriez at Rank 74, Nobility 7. Is this strong enough, or should I grind him up a little higher first? I'm thinking perhaps Kishinev-Bucharest then to Istanbul via Plovdiv, or maybe even take Sofia first so that I can take its tavern generals to help me clear out the rest of the Western empire (Hungary/Albania/Greece) and the Kingdom of Naples. Then Yermolov can finish off the Eastern part of the Empire across the straits and descend to polish off Crete. Meanwhile, Kutuzov, Sophia and Carteaux can go for a trans-European adventure with either Sophia or Carteaux detouring up into Denmark with the help of units I've spawned along the way, and the other standing off from enemy generals and hammering them to the point where Kutuzov can take them out. Sounds good? |
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Post by Jean-Luc Picard on Dec 19, 2016 19:33:48 GMT
With a strong Cavalry companion for Yermolov, Isabela is feasible (believe me, I got her so) I currently have Dumouriez at Rank 74, Nobility 7. Is this strong enough, or should I grind him up a little higher first? I'm thinking perhaps Kishinev-Bucharest then to Istanbul via Plovdiv, or maybe even take Sofia first so that I can take its tavern generals to help me clear out the rest of the Western empire (Hungary/Albania/Greece) and the Kingdom of Naples. Then Yermolov can finish off the Eastern part of the Empire across the straits and descend to polish off Crete. Meanwhile, Kutuzov, Sophia and Carteaux can go for a trans-European adventure with either Sophia or Carteaux detouring up into Denmark with the help of units I've spawned along the way, and the other standing off from enemy generals and hammering them to the point where Kutuzov can take them out. Sounds good? I played with just Sulkowski. Feel free to read my guide (see Netherfreek's list). Maybe send Carteaux to Constantinople, Sophia to the Rhine and Paris, and the rest as I did? |
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Post by Yi Sun Sin on Dec 19, 2016 19:38:52 GMT
It is possible to get Isabela from Russia 1798 if your allies do well.
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Post by pathdoc on Dec 20, 2016 16:22:51 GMT
It's that IF that I don't like.
I took an inordinately long time as Russia to finish 1809 last night - barely squeaked in for the win on a 90-something turn game. I'm not sure what it was, but sometimes the cavalry doesn't get that extra move at the end to occupy a city when the defender dies, and that costs you.
Practice, practice, practice. OTOH trying to beat the same scenario and whittle your time down is a productive and useful way to grind for medals.
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Post by junius on Dec 27, 2016 5:06:54 GMT
It's that IF that I don't like. I took an inordinately long time as Russia to finish 1809 last night - barely squeaked in for the win on a 90-something turn game. I'm not sure what it was, but sometimes the cavalry doesn't get that extra move at the end to occupy a city when the defender dies, and that costs you. Practice, practice, practice. OTOH trying to beat the same scenario and whittle your time down is a productive and useful way to grind for medals. If you move a cav unit and THEN kill a defender, you don't get that extra move. You have to kill and then move. |
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Post by pathdoc on Dec 28, 2016 14:25:48 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up, junius |
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Post by pathdoc on Jan 13, 2017 16:14:31 GMT
Okay, so I'm doing this by stages, and I've decided to practice by doing the Ottoman half of it and seeing how fast I can make that happen, then when I've got that worked out I'll play the Western European phase. I have Dumouriez with snare drum and warhorse escorting Yermolov. Updates to follow.
Days 1 to 4 - Approach and attack Bucharest.
Day 5 - Dumo in Bucharest.
Day 6 - Dumo just north of Sofia; spawned double guards cavalry in Bucharest. Yermolov engaging artillery just southeast of there.
Day 7 - Artillery destroyed and Milinovic dead with it. Guards Cav across the river and ready to move on Sofia from the northeast. Second double guards cav spawned.
Day 8 - Dumo is in Sofia. Tavern generals include Poniatowski (at turn 36!!!) and three also-rans. Guards cav#1 engaging infantry to SE of Sofia. Guards cav #2 doubled back to eliminate fort and mask Bucharest.
Day 9 - Took artillery factory immediately SW of Sofia; spawned double line infantry in Sofia. Spawned single heavy cav to guard Bucharest. Next stop for Dumouriez and Guards cav #1, Uskup. Yermolov and some cavalry will head to Plovdiv and thence Istanbul.
Day 12 - Uskup has fallen; attacking Plovidv.
Day 13 - Plovdiv has not fallen; attacking Tirana with Dumouriez (siege artillery, cannot return fire); additional Guards Cav on their way to level 2 siege artillery centre NW of Uskup.
Day 14 - Took Plovdiv; Guards cav died attacking large fort; spawned double grenadiers in it (L5 after post-capture upgrade). Took Tirana. Troops from Uskup heading for Athens. Troops from Sofia en route to assist cavalry with Level 2 artillery factory.
Day 15 - Yermolov engaging Turkish artillery to north of Istanbul.
Day 16 - Dumouriez en route for Athens with troops from Tirana and Uskup. Artillery factory NW of Uskup taken; next goal is the coastal port.
Day 17 - Still trying to take Athens. Fort NW of Istanbul and Turkish Black Sea Fleet destroyed.
Day 18 - Captured Athens. Captured artillery centre on NW edge of Istanbul. Began the bombardment of Istanbul and the fort near the Turkish Adriatic seaport. Dumouriez is on his way to Crete.
Day 20 - Captured Istanbul.
Day 21 - Attack on Eastern Turkey begins - attacking coastal artillery factory and preparing to cross strait.
Day 23 - Fortress near Adriatic coast destroyed; attack on port and defending artillery begins. Bursa taken. Enemy coast artillery in the straits destroyed. Cretan city taken.
Day 25 - captured Austrian city that had been occupied by Turks. Approaching Eskisehir. Dumo has left Crete and will approach Izmir.
Day 27 - Izmir captured. Beginning to spawn battleships to destroy Ottoman naval units off Crete.
Day 28 - Eskisehir captured; East Turkish cavalry stable captured. Ottoman Adriatic seaport captured. All Ottoman land elements now destroyed. Ottoman naval elements off Crete are all that remains.
Day 31 - OTTOMAN FAILURE.
With attention to detail in regards to fleet handling and save/reload for Yermolov and Dumouriez, I suspect I could shave a couple of days off this. It was very resource-hungry in the first ten days or so, and not much would have been left over for Kutuzov, Sophia and Carteaux; on the other hand, they have a lot of friendly territory to cross before they engage their first enemy, so there is not much pressure on them to fight and spawn reinforcements until then.
European phase to follow in a separate reply. Right now suggestions are invited as to exactly what to equip my artillerists with; specifically whether to give Sophia double siege gun or double rocket artillery (for faster movement and no enemy reply in attack phase), and what I should then give Carteaux. Items I currently have include a helmet for +4 defence and powder for +4 attack. I invested in a medikit so I don't have to wait for people to heal when they're at their most useful. Grinding thirty medals is trivial anyway.
Once I have the Napoleonic Code, I will regroup Fatimah (probably into Sophia) and possibly get some cheap trainers to boost Dumo up to 5 cav stars and Sophia to 5 artillery. Then I can start saving for items like +6 powder, +6 supply tents etc. But for now I will hold the fort on the Ottoman front and have a go in the rest of Europe.
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Post by Conrad von Hotzendorf on Jan 16, 2017 15:39:43 GMT
It may be possible with enough dedication, I remember me first few successful conquests were Russia 1798, sending sacken and bagration south to deal with the ottomans and Italians, and rushing west with Barclay, the cav general and Suvorov, keeping golitsyn in reserve or placing him on double armoured car when I arrive in France.
The main problem I encountered was Denmark as ushakov couldn't kill the art gen in Copenhagen and it took too long to upgrade the economy.
I consistently got around 60-70 turns so with better generals and more experience it may be possible
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Post by pathdoc on Jan 16, 2017 16:44:57 GMT
Looking at the map on Day 31, here are my thoughts:
1) Bear in mind that for all of this, I completely ignored everything that was happening there and did not move any troops in the direction of Europe; this was so I could concentrate on the Ottoman campaign. When the crunch comes, I will have to play both simultaneously, relying on the above as my guide on exactly what to do.
2) In an integrated game, I would not be neglecting Uskup, Tirana, the Adriatic seaport or the nearby artillery factory, but would be spawning units from there as soon as they were conquered and sending them west to the Adriatic coast. I suspect these would form the bulk of my invasion force for the Italian peninsula, with the remainder to be spawned once I seized assets on arrival.
3) The Kingdom of Naples possesses infantry, cavalry, artillery and naval construction capabilities, and if I can seize Bari and the stable to its west in the first instance, the forces spawned there can head up the Italian peninsula to seize Naples and its port, then Italy in due course. Ships built in the Port of Naples can then head across to support landings in Sicily and simultaneously head across to support the conquest of Algeria. The trick is to be able to keep a handle on the battle for the rest of the Kingdom of Naples and up into Italy, and also sending forces across to Sicily and then Algeria. I think I should go with my current save and practise this phase from where I am right now.
4) Once the Kingdom of Naples is firmly in hand and I have units headed up the Italian peninsula, then regardless of whether I have yet conquered Rome, I need to divert some forces across to Sardinia and Corsica. Naval gunfire support will be required here to protect from French Naval units. Once I have Sardinia and Corsica as a base, troops can progress from there into Spain (assisting any generals who may have arrived) or up into the underbelly of Mediterranean France. Moroccan units are already in Spain by Day 31, giving the Spanish something to think about besides the Portuguese.
5) Also by this time, the Swedes have mostly mopped up Denmark while the Italians have surged into a salient which ends somewhere between Frankfurt and Dresden, and which the Austrians are attacking from its eastern side. The British have a firm hold in Holland and are as far east as Brunswick, while Prussian units are almost to Antwerp and to the base of the Danish peninsula.
6) Kutuzov, Sophia and Carteaux should probably head straight for Paris, stealing or capturing what cities they can along the way; the activities of my allies should give them a clear run through and up into the Danish peninsula, and Dresden, Stuttgart or Munich should be a capture-or-steal target from which to explode outwards into the Confederation of the Rhine or Southwards into Italy (the invasion of which should pull some Italian troops south to meet it; the peninsula itself is pretty bare).
7) If trans-European forces arrive in Spain at about the same time as forces derived from the destruction of Algeria hit its Mediterranean shores, it should fall in short order. The key is probably to use generals with War Horse to move through the mountains, and let troops spawned from captured cities move across the plains to the next nearest cities.
We will see what happens in practice.
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