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Post by best75 on Mar 23, 2017 20:37:54 GMT
The 2 gold artillery generals. I am wondering who people think is better, ignoring cost .org/image/88gmu2221/]  [/url] |
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Post by TK421 on Mar 23, 2017 20:48:23 GMT
Li due to him being non-IAP, and being extremely useful with his fire dragon...
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Post by best75 on Mar 23, 2017 20:59:29 GMT
Li due to him being non-IAP, and being extremely useful with his fire dragon... Ignore if they are IAP or Non-IAP general I am asking if you had both at max which one would be better |
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Post by Singlemalt on Mar 23, 2017 21:01:50 GMT
Despite I like the multiple attack of Li Shimin, Napoleon is really more helping me with harsh campaign levels. The combi of stronger putput and rumor makes him my number 1 arty guy
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Post by TK421 on Mar 23, 2017 21:08:36 GMT
Li due to him being non-IAP, and being extremely useful with his fire dragon... Ignore if they are IAP or Non-IAP general I am asking if you had both at max which one would be better Still Li. Partly because I like how cool he looks. Nonetheless, though, he does get some good abilities at level 6. |
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Post by andrei on Mar 23, 2017 21:20:26 GMT
Napoleon.
He has Rumor. When You don't need to bombard the walls or buildings it is better to disable most dangerous enemy so Your team could eliminate him without any harm. That is very important, at least for me.
Fire dragon looks nice, but it is back at level51 as I understand - that's endgame - when the damage from it... is not that useful.
And Napoleon has Li Shimin's Logistics for free (Plunder).
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Post by WingedHussar on Mar 23, 2017 22:10:10 GMT
2 artillery generals with completly different general and unit skills. Really interesting
Conclussion: Napoleon wins
Reasons:
Artillery is the unit type with the most hp, means that in contrast it is better to balance attack and hp - Napoleon does it better because he has attack master whereas Li has Marshal
No retaliation - Not that important since they have 3 range
Rumor vs Logistics - at max lvl Napoleon gets plunder, he basically sacrafises 1 troop skill for a general skill - which is a great trade. On top of that, rumor makes him dangerous and better in both campaigns and invasions
Fire dragon - This is the turning tide - I made some testings when I had Li in medieval age (50 shots vs 2 tagrets - got a result that the 2nd taget takes approx ~42% of total dmg the first target took)
This result is not really accurate though since testings would be more precise with higher numbers and my calculations might be max 4% off in both directions.
Summary: even though fire dragon is a great skill, Napoleon's skill combination and the artillery growth(attack>hp) that suits him, makes Napoleon a far more viable artillery general in terms of damage and crowd control.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 22:20:21 GMT
I have both at 5* both great depends on how one plays the game I like super mortar more than artillery tho
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 23:03:18 GMT
Napoleon is superior.
At gets more life back thanks to plunder (500) then Li Shimin (454).
Napoleon has better attack (+~100) and Rumor, and can't be counter-attacked.
He has also better stock stats, like defense.
Li has Fire Dragon, which isn't as helpful as it sounds (just like the burning damage to buildings) in the end-game.
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Post by forhonor on Mar 24, 2017 1:13:13 GMT
I'd say napoleon. Higher attack and no retaliation tho li does have logistics and fire dragon.
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Post by stoic on Mar 24, 2017 4:51:46 GMT
I do not know guys what "endgame" do you have in mind, but "fire dragon" works well enough in lvl 5 and 6 campaigns. May be it will be not very effective in a couple of cities of Empire mod, but that fact deffinitely does not make it useless :-) It will be interesting to know if someone (who has Li Shimin lvl6) thinks that "Fire dragon" is not an effective skill :-) For example  233+182+451+266+202 = 1334 total damage. I do not know many generals without support of "Commanders", who could deliver such damage almost every turn. And do not forget the burning effect (100-200 damage)... |
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Post by andrei on Mar 24, 2017 7:05:06 GMT
I do not know guys what "endgame" do you have in mind, but "fire dragon" works well enough in lvl 5 and 6 campaigns. May be it will be not very effective in a couple of cities of Empire mod, but that fact deffinitely does not make it useless :-) It will be interesting to know if someone (who has Li Shimin lvl6) thinks that "Fire dragon" is not an effective skill :-) 233+182+451+266+202 = 1334 total damage. I do not know many generals without support of "Commanders", who could deliver such damage almost every turn. And do not forget the burning effect (100-200 damage)... It looks very nice. And it is not useless. But there is no any decisive importance in the damage to non-general units. They are not a threat any more. So 200 additional damage to the units with low damage, when Your generals have to handle enemy generals who can cause around 700-800 damage at once, is not the main priority. Nobody says Li is weak, but Napoleon is better because of his Rumor. It can save Your team members many times during a mission, while fire dragon can't really change anything. Moreover, when it is so important to cause multiple damage (it is sometimes) Napoleon can always save his rage bar filled to use Explosive Master skill. |
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Post by stoic on Mar 24, 2017 8:34:52 GMT
Non-general units are not a danger but a prey for player’s generals to refill the rage-bar. The problem is that it is necessary to kill them in your turn (otherwise it will be in vain). So Li Shimin is doing actually a great job by weakening them (because at a later stage not many of them could be killed with one shot). And with rage-bar refilled and Commander skill triggered it is possible to do many things in EW5 :0)
I think Napoleon is stronger (obviously ET will make IAP stronger ;0) But it is not a walkover or one-way street for Napoleon.
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Post by stoic on Mar 24, 2017 8:46:28 GMT
Another example - Washington and Nobunaga. Washington is great, but Nobunaga is a real workhorse for many players.
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