|
Post by soonerjbd on Oct 6, 2017 1:28:20 GMT
So I made a thread to catalogue all the super units in the game, and it made me start thinking about units that could be added, could be fun or might be interesting. I’m going to throw some out. Might add more later. Curious for others’ suggestions.
Japan Special air attack: Kamakazi My thought here is that it would be kind of like a miniature nuke that could only be used on naval units. It would do something like 150 damage, but there would be trade offs. It would only have a 60 percent chance of landing. Otherwise it would do no damage. Also, it would lower morale of the nearest friendly unit to the target.
France Foreign Legion Commando Desert attack bonus; bonus versus armored units
United States Airborne Commando This one would require tech level 3 airport. Stats would mirror Finland’s commandos, bonus damage to infantry and armor.
|
|
|
Post by best75 on Oct 6, 2017 2:24:30 GMT
A soviet infantry unit with ability to not lose morale when flanked or surrounded. I would say this represents the the "not one step back" order given.
|
|
|
Post by soonerjbd on Oct 6, 2017 3:07:57 GMT
A soviet infantry unit with ability to not lose morale when flanked or surrounded. I would say this represents the the "not one step back" order given. I was bandying about some sort of human wave type unit for the Soviets. Like a weakfish infantry unit with a ton of HP. They lost so many soldiers, but just replaced them immediately.
|
|
|
Post by stoic on Oct 6, 2017 4:58:01 GMT
A soviet infantry unit with ability to not lose morale when flanked or surrounded. I would say this represents the the "not one step back" order given. I was bandying about some sort of human wave type unit for the Soviets. Like a weakfish infantry unit with a ton of HP. They lost so many soldiers, but just replaced them immediately. It is a myth... Thanks to great historians (Glantz, Erikson, House...) the broad western public has nowadays a more precise information on this topic: The Red Army was outnumbered by Axis forces in 1941 at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa. Soviet mobilization efforts and steady German losses began to change the force ratios in 1942, but the Red Army only had a roughly 2:1 advantage from February 1943 until mid-1944 before maxing out at a little over 4: 1 at the very end of the war. Here’s another way of looking at the force ratios. The Red Army in the field actually peaked in size in mid-1943, but the ratios continued to shift in its favor due to Germany’s inability to replace losses. The Red Army didn’t keep getting bigger, but it maintained its size while the Wehrmacht steadily lost ground, literally and figuratively. A 2:1 advantage is significant, but falls short of the 3:1 force ratio that is generally regarded as necessary for attacking forces, and it’s a long way from the double-digit advantage that is often claimed. Both sides were able to temporarily achieve greater numerical advantages in certain times and places by concentrating forces. What about force ratios at the Battle of Stalingrad, which has been the focus of so much attention? It turns out there are some surprises here, too. During the defensive phase of urban warfare (August through mid-November 1942), the Red Army was outnumbered about 1.6:1. The Red Army reversed the odds in its counteroffensive in November 1942, achieving about a 2:1 advantage during Operation Uranus. It was exactly the same situation with other Allies At the Battle of the Bulge, the Allies were initially outnumbered nearly 1.8:1, but in less than ten days gained the upper hand in troops and a 4:1 advantage in tanks. Within the span of four weeks, the Allies reversed the troop ratio and attained an 11:1 advantage in tanks. The Allies also had quantitative superiority in the Pacific, where they had more divisions than the Japanese from late 1942 until the end of the war, achieving advantages of 1.5:1 in 1943, 2:1 in 1944, and 2.6:1 in mid-1945.
|
|
|
Post by soonerjbd on Oct 6, 2017 5:08:45 GMT
It is most definitely not a myth. We’re not talking about force ratios. We’re talking about casualties. Germany lost about 4-5 million soldiers in the war. The Soviets lost more than 11 million. That is more than double German losses. Soviet losses accounted for 65 percent of all Allied casualties. That is an enormous loss ratio for a victorious army. The Americans and British both lost about 400,000 soldiers, by comparison.
|
|
|
Post by andrei on Oct 6, 2017 5:10:32 GMT
Yeah, "stupid" russian military that can fight only in case the enemy is already defeated by general Winter/Frost. Whatever historical era.. either Napoleon, Hitler or even medieval. Useless russian military hordes built and secured biggest country in the world with the help of wheather. I can't understand how people in Europe can still believe in that.
|
|
|
Post by stoic on Oct 6, 2017 5:15:05 GMT
soonerjbd i strongly recommend you to reasd serious academic literature, like these: When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler (Modern War Studies) David M. Glantz, Jonathan M. House bookfi.net/book/1054299Battle for the Ukraine: The Korsun'-Shevchenkovskii Operation (Cass Series on the Soviet (Russian) Study of War, 15) David M. Glantz, Harold S. Orenstein bookfi.net/book/1124673The Battle for Kursk, 1943: The Soviet General Staff Study (Cass Series on the Soviet Study of War, No. 10.) D. Glantz H. Orenstein (eds.) bookfi.net/book/1041295Belorussia 1944: The Soviet General Staff Study (Soviet (Russian) Study of War) Colonel Glantz bookfi.net/book/1163934
|
|
|
Post by andrei on Oct 6, 2017 5:16:22 GMT
It is most definitely not a myth. We’re not talking about force ratios. We’re talking about casualties. Germany lost about 4-5 million soldiers in the war. The Soviets lost more than 11 million. That is more than double German losses. Soviet losses accounted for 65 percent of all Allied casualties. That is an enormous loss ratio for a victorious army. The Americans and British both lost about 400,000 soldiers, by comparison. Have You ever compared the number of divisions defeated by Allies and by Soviets? Casualties? Don't use Wikipedia. Overall casualties on the Eastern front is about 1,5:1. Why only Germany? Romania, Italy, Hungary even 25000 french were killed. Btw more than french who died fighting against Germany in french resistance.
|
|
|
Post by soonerjbd on Oct 6, 2017 5:38:23 GMT
soonerjbd i strongly recommend you to reasd serious academic literature, like these: When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler (Modern War Studies) David M. Glantz, Jonathan M. House bookfi.net/book/1054299Battle for the Ukraine: The Korsun'-Shevchenkovskii Operation (Cass Series on the Soviet (Russian) Study of War, 15) David M. Glantz, Harold S. Orenstein bookfi.net/book/1124673The Battle for Kursk, 1943: The Soviet General Staff Study (Cass Series on the Soviet Study of War, No. 10.) D. Glantz H. Orenstein (eds.) bookfi.net/book/1041295Belorussia 1944: The Soviet General Staff Study (Soviet (Russian) Study of War) Colonel Glantz bookfi.net/book/1163934 I have a degree in history, with specialization in World War II. I assure you I am well aware of the academic literature. The Soviets notoriously lost far more men even in victorious battles. They lost about three times the number the Germans did in Stalingrad, with over a million Russian soldiers killed. In the Battle of Kursk, the Germans had about 100,000 killed between the initial German attack and the Soviet counteroffensive. The Soviets lost more than 400,000. German casualties mounted towards the end of the war, but through 1943, the Soviets were losing about 3-4 men for every enemy they killed. There is simply no way around that.
|
|
|
Post by stoic on Oct 6, 2017 5:39:28 GMT
It is most definitely not a myth. We’re not talking about force ratios. We’re talking about casualties. Germany lost about 4-5 million soldiers in the war. The Soviets lost more than 11 million. That is more than double German losses. Soviet losses accounted for 65 percent of all Allied casualties. That is an enormous loss ratio for a victorious army. The Americans and British both lost about 400,000 soldiers, by comparison. 1.It is ABC actually. Germany Total (incl. conscripted foreigners) 18,200,000 Killed/missing 5,318,000 Prisoners of war Captured 11,100,000 Percent killed 29.2 USSR Total (incl. conscripted foreigners) 34,476,700 Killed/missing 10,725,345 Prisoners of war Captured 5,750,000 Percent killed 31.1 So, we have: 1. Yes Soviet losses were bigger, but 2/1 ratio says nothing about "human waves". It is imposiible to create any wave with figures above. 2. Most serious casualties were at the beginning of the war, at the end USSR could simply kill all German PoW (like Germany did) and thus seriously equal the numbers. But USSR didn't do it, as I said in another thread. 3. Every 8 division out of 10 were destroyed on Eastern front, that explains low casualty rate by other Allies. German war machine was the best millitary creation in millitary history. And it was basically annihilated on Eastern front.
|
|
|
Post by soonerjbd on Oct 6, 2017 5:43:02 GMT
It is most definitely not a myth. We’re not talking about force ratios. We’re talking about casualties. Germany lost about 4-5 million soldiers in the war. The Soviets lost more than 11 million. That is more than double German losses. Soviet losses accounted for 65 percent of all Allied casualties. That is an enormous loss ratio for a victorious army. The Americans and British both lost about 400,000 soldiers, by comparison. Have You ever compared the number of divisions defeated by Allies and by Soviets? Casualties? Don't use Wikipedia. Overall casualties on the Eastern front is about 1,5:1. Why only Germany? Romania, Italy, Hungary even 25000 french were killed. Btw more than french who died fighting against Germany in french resistance. And what were the casualty numbers in major battles like Kursk and Stalingrad? The Soviets had casualty rates of 3:1 in many major battles. Casualty numbers evened out as Germany fell back against Russian advances and the fighting got closer and closer to Berlin, but at places like Kursk and Stalingrad, Soviet casualties were markedly higher than German losses.
|
|
|
Post by soonerjbd on Oct 6, 2017 5:44:49 GMT
It is most definitely not a myth. We’re not talking about force ratios. We’re talking about casualties. Germany lost about 4-5 million soldiers in the war. The Soviets lost more than 11 million. That is more than double German losses. Soviet losses accounted for 65 percent of all Allied casualties. That is an enormous loss ratio for a victorious army. The Americans and British both lost about 400,000 soldiers, by comparison. 1.It is ABC actually. Germany Total (incl. conscripted foreigners) 18,200,000 Killed/missing 5,318,000 Prisoners of war Captured 11,100,000 Percent killed 29.2 USSR Total (incl. conscripted foreigners) 34,476,700 Killed/missing 10,725,345 Prisoners of war Captured 5,750,000 Percent killed 31.1 So, we have: 1. Yes Soviet losses were bigger, but 2/1 ratio says nothing about "human waves". It is imposiible to create any wave with figures above. 2. Most serious casualties were at the beginning of the war, at the end USSR could simply kill all German PoW (like Germany did) and thus seriously equal the numbers. But USSR didn't do it, as I said in another thread. 3. Every 8 division out of 10 were destroyed on Eastern front, that explains low casualty rate by other Allies. German war machine was the best millitary creation in millitary history. And it was basically annihilated on Eastern front. I’m sorry, but when you lose three or four times the soldiers your enemy does in a victorious battle, “human wave” is the only way to describe what occurred.
|
|
|
Post by soonerjbd on Oct 6, 2017 5:48:06 GMT
I’m not taking anything away from the Soviet army, btw. They absorbed crushing losses at the beginning of the war, stayed in the fight and strategically outmaneuvered a technologically superior and well-prepared enemy. They deserve the lion’s share of the credit for Allied victory in World War II.
|
|
|
Post by stoic on Oct 6, 2017 5:51:04 GMT
soonerjbd i strongly recommend you to reasd serious academic literature, like these: When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler (Modern War Studies) David M. Glantz, Jonathan M. House bookfi.net/book/1054299Battle for the Ukraine: The Korsun'-Shevchenkovskii Operation (Cass Series on the Soviet (Russian) Study of War, 15) David M. Glantz, Harold S. Orenstein bookfi.net/book/1124673The Battle for Kursk, 1943: The Soviet General Staff Study (Cass Series on the Soviet Study of War, No. 10.) D. Glantz H. Orenstein (eds.) bookfi.net/book/1041295Belorussia 1944: The Soviet General Staff Study (Soviet (Russian) Study of War) Colonel Glantz bookfi.net/book/1163934 I have a degree in history, with specialization in World War II. I assure you I am well aware of the academic literature. The Soviets notoriously lost far more men even in victorious battles. They lost about three times the number the Germans did in Stalingrad, with over a million Russian soldiers killed. In the Battle of Kursk, the Germans had about 100,000 killed between the initial German attack and the Soviet counteroffensive. The Soviets lost more than 400,000. German casualties mounted towards the end of the war, but through 1943, the Soviets were losing about 3-4 men for every enemy they killed. There is simply no way around that. I do not know the quality of your education and don't want to judge it. I give you opinion of David Glantz, a scholar with world-wide reputation. You can make a decision what to do next: believe old myths or rethink some points. I do not have a desire to convince you. I even think it's better, that many think this way. I'm more afraid of another opinion in fact : "World War II has much to teach us. Debunking the myths of this war can improve our understanding of the military situation today. We might even avoid generating new myths based on old stereotypes". Reina Pennington, PhD, teaches military and Russian history at Norwich University in Vermont. She is a former Air Force intelligence officer and Soviet analyst
|
|
|
Post by stoic on Oct 6, 2017 5:57:59 GMT
I’m sorry, but when you lose three or four times the soldiers your enemy does in a victorious battle, “human wave” is the only way to describe what occurred. In his work Glantz gives all casualties on both sides in every operation, I'm sure that neither I nor You could find better source. So again: When Titans Clashed: How the Red Army Stopped Hitler (Modern War Studies) David M. Glantz, Jonathan M. House bookfi.net/book/1054299
|
|