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Post by Saber Lily on Oct 24, 2017 1:37:56 GMT
Can't get the hang of these new-fangled games nowadays, with their cities and GoG2-esque engines and whatnot... Ah, back when I lurked, the forum had like 100 members, and Lannes vs Suvorov were still things...
Anyway, eough of that talk.
IMO WC4 is basically a worse version of GoG1, with the dreadful GoG2 engine, GoG campaigns, EW5 cities thingy, WC3 conquests, borders that made Poland go into permanent depression, some weird algorithm that made every non-general unit hit like Saber Lily's quick attacks a wet noodle, and the worst graphics in an Easytech game. (The GoG remake aspect was agreed upon by Picard et. co. during my wanderings).
So, I propose to you new (and some old) blood: Sell me on this... thing. Convince me that I should reinstall WC4 instead of deleting it in disgust after seeing Poland's 1939 borders.
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Post by deadman on Oct 24, 2017 3:14:19 GMT
Well for one the border gore is not as bad as as previous titles. Second it is not GOG2 so I consider that a huge good thing. Ummmm third It brings back the ability to build up cities (somewhat) ultimately its up to you, but for me since this is not gog2 it more than warrents a playthrough.
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Post by Tadamichi Kuribayashi on Oct 24, 2017 3:37:55 GMT
Yeah, they butchered Poland. Did I also mention that the Dutch are not included in the Battle of South Asia mission, as they should have been? What about how they made me (as in the general) severely worse than in WC3? And uh...the rank of mayor. Honestly, I agree with you on how it's hard to actually want to play such a thing.
However, I give the point that they at least added a couple of more nations in South America. Yeah...i'm giving a bunch of specific, terrible arguments.
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Post by Singlemalt on Oct 24, 2017 4:14:20 GMT
Just play it or leave it would say.. its a game you should enjoy it since its freetime.. if you dont just dont play it and use ur time for other stuff..
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Post by Max Otto von Stierlitz on Oct 24, 2017 9:12:57 GMT
I haven't played GOG, but compared to WC3 I can say three bad things:
1) AI is dumber. Yes, your allies are more helpful than in wc3, but very often AI has problems to capture city, leaves cities unprotected, don't use paratroopers when needed and so on, this makes quite often than instead of developing some strategy you just wait when AI will leave cities you need unprotected.
2) You have less information about units which makes less possibility for tactical planning. In wc3 you can see exact damage, the unit can make, add terrain and other bonuses, level defence and calculate maximal and minimal damage the unit can make. Based on this you can decide, whether you may kill unit in 1 turn, you will do it 100% or you will not be able to do it. That's very important when you plan whom should you attack with your tank.
3) Also movement speed became very complicated. In wc3 you could always calculate, how many turns you need to get somewhere, in wc4 that's quite impossible if you're not swimming.
But also game has quite many improvements too: you have to use academy gens and none of them is perfect like ECs in wc3, tech upgrade tree got more interesting, units stacking brings new tactical possibilities, you have to use more units without gens not like almost only with gens in wc3 and some more.
In general I think overall game is a bit better than wc3. But removal of some "improvements" could make it much better.
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Post by Saber Lily on Oct 24, 2017 21:17:52 GMT
I haven't played GOG, but compared to WC3 I can say three bad things: 1) AI is dumber. Yes, your allies are more helpful than in wc3, but very often AI has problems to capture city, leaves cities unprotected, don't use paratroopers when needed and so on, this makes quite often than instead of developing some strategy you just wait when AI will leave cities you need unprotected. 2) You have less information about units which makes less possibility for tactical planning. In wc3 you can see exact damage, the unit can make, add terrain and other bonuses, level defence and calculate maximal and minimal damage the unit can make. Based on this you can decide, whether you may kill unit in 1 turn, you will do it 100% or you will not be able to do it. That's very important when you plan whom should you attack with your tank. 3) Also movement speed became very complicated. In wc3 you could always calculate, how many turns you need to get somewhere, in wc4 that's quite impossible if you're not swimming. But also game has quite many improvements too: you have to use academy gens and none of them is perfect like ECs in wc3, tech upgrade tree got more interesting, units stacking brings new tactical possibilities, you have to use more units without gens not like almost only with gens in wc3 and some more. In general I think overall game is a bit better than wc3. But removal of some "improvements" could make it much better. I see. If I wanted to play the WC4 campaigns I'd play GoG1/P (as they're pretty much the same as the original GoG ones remade to fit WC4), and for WWII I quite like a Chinese WC3 mod Kraut introduced to me once, which has stuff like Argentina and Communist China. EW5 cities were not my thing. The tech tree looks good, but that's one of the only thing I like. As for the borders... I kinda like bordergoring, thanks to me also playing EUIV and CKII. I'll stick with EW4 and WC3 then for the moment, unless if the Cold War stuff proves to be interesting or a viable strategy occurs which allows you to get a general faster (as general troops seem to be the only ones dealing significant amounts of damage). |
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 24, 2017 22:35:57 GMT
I actually think the AI is better than WC3. Allies have trouble taking cities for some reason, but they are generally a bit more competent. The enemy AI is much improved. They do a lot more to contest amphibious landings, and no useless paratrooper spam. They make much better use of naval units.
The game also feels deeper to me. Ability to build and upgrade factories, airports, missile silos, etc. and the associated tech requirements mean you have to balance unit production with investment in city improvements. Creates a much better sense of a real economy.
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Post by Tadamichi Kuribayashi on Oct 24, 2017 23:06:11 GMT
I guess that the AI is improved...
*plays Operation Market Garden mission* *British keep fruitlessly landing paratroopers right next to a bunch of units even though they accomplish nothing*
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Post by Saber Lily on Oct 24, 2017 23:34:05 GMT
I actually think the AI is better than WC3. Allies have trouble taking cities for some reason, but they are generally a bit more competent. The enemy AI is much improved. They do a lot more to contest amphibious landings, and no useless paratrooper spam. They make much better use of naval units. The game also feels deeper to me. Ability to build and upgrade factories, airports, missile silos, etc. and the associated tech requirements mean you have to balance unit production with investment in city improvements. Creates a much better sense of a real economy. IMO I like the complexity of mobile gaming (not counting ports of non-mobile games, roguelikes) to be at the most GoG complexity. If I wanted deeper gameplay, I'd play PC games. |
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Post by Saber Lily on Oct 24, 2017 23:34:26 GMT
I guess that the AI is improved... *plays Operation Market Garden mission* *British keep fruitlessly landing paratroopers right next to a bunch of units even though they accomplish nothing* That's Operation Market Garden IRL as well. |
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Post by soonerjbd on Oct 24, 2017 23:51:45 GMT
I guess that the AI is improved... *plays Operation Market Garden mission* *British keep fruitlessly landing paratroopers right next to a bunch of units even though they accomplish nothing* That's Operation Market Garden IRL as well. This is what I was going to say. Pretty much sums up Matket Garden perfectly. |
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Post by best75 on Oct 25, 2017 0:29:16 GMT
I guess that the AI is improved... *plays Operation Market Garden mission* *British keep fruitlessly landing paratroopers right next to a bunch of units even though they accomplish nothing* The mission always felt a bit odd. It seemed like we were suppose to reinforce Monty and his troops after they captured the city across the sea but Model always wipes them out in his super tank... |
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