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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Dec 2, 2019 2:23:23 GMT
MAKE SURE VATUTIN SURVIVES! To help the situation, place him on a heavy tank whemever you can. in fact place any general on a heavy tank  |
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Post by Jeanne d'Arc on Dec 3, 2019 0:47:09 GMT
True dat.
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Post by Gone on Dec 8, 2019 20:35:15 GMT
As long as they’re panzer generals, of course. Don’t think that just because Zhukov has 4 tanks stars, he will be good there. |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Dec 9, 2019 3:55:20 GMT
As long as they’re panzer generals, of course. Don’t think that just because Zhukov has 4 tanks stars, he will be good there. well but they will survive the longest |
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Post by Gone on Dec 9, 2019 17:13:06 GMT
As long as they’re panzer generals, of course. Don’t think that just because Zhukov has 4 tanks stars, he will be good there. well but they will survive the longest Then tell me why you absolutely need two artillery generals. |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Dec 10, 2019 4:38:47 GMT
damage, but just suggesting smth practical that is seen in campaigns and conquests
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 12, 2020 5:54:51 GMT
Vatutin.. beginners' favorite. Savage attack. Critical attack!! Cost effective. Unless, if I tell you he is worse than Patton. For beginners he might be a great panzer commander, but as you progress through the game, he will become less and less effective. And finally.. the modern war! He will become unreliable in the modern war. Why?
Vatutin hits hard and often do critical attacks (24% chance). But he is unreliably weak when it comes to defense. With his rank of only a captain and having no defensive skills, he doesn't survive so long especially in the modern war. He is also very slow. Although having panzer leader, he doesn't have the armored assault to stack his panzer leader, instead what he has is plain fighting (which is not that great as he has to attack from the plains without coverage from tank and artillery attacks). Once his health drops, his offensive capabilities will decrease, however he still desperately try to deal as much damage as possible using the tide of iron. But belive me, it won't help much and he doesn't last for long until his division is fully crushed. If you meet this guy in conquests or scenarios, remember you don't need to worry, as you only need to barrage this guy with artilleries and he is doomed.
Although, he is not that bad for beginners, but he is not the man you want to keep in your HQ until the end. The legendary Messe-Leeb combo is enough to end this man's career. Use the Messe-Leeb combo until you can buy Guderian and buy Rommel, Graziani, and Rokossovsky instead. Those guys will accompany your journeys to the end. If you want a 5th panzer, I recommend Patton above this guy as he can be better at everything. If you want to upgrade his rank so he can get tougher, it is going to take more medals than any other panzer generals in the gold tier (which are better). The worst panzer of tier 3 is still better and more cost effective (especially in the end games) than Vatutin.
If you are very fond of tanks and already completed the game and you want to buy him as collection, that is not a problem. However, all gold tier panzer generals are better than him. For his empty slot I highly recommend rumor as always, as it helps you a lot (especially in mid to end game).
Note: I recommend the Messe-Leeb combo, but if you want to get him before Guderian, he can be great at the beginnings and boost your progress but you will need to exchange him for 1440 which means loosing 360 medals.
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 12, 2020 6:33:22 GMT
Vatutin.. beginners' favorite. Savage attack. Critical attack!! Cost effective. Unless, if I tell you he is worse than Patton. For beginners he might be a great panzer commander, but as you progress through the game, he will become less and less effective. And finally.. the modern war! He will become unreliable in the modern war. Why? Vatutin hits hard and often do critical attacks (24% chance). But he is unreliably weak when it comes to defense. With his rank of only a captain and having no defensive skills, he doesn't survive so long especially in the modern war. He is also very slow. Although having panzer leader, he doesn't have the armored assault to stack his panzer leader, instead what he has is plain fighting (which is not that great as he has to attack from the plains without coverage from tank and artillery attacks). Once his health drops, his offensive capabilities will decrease, however he still desperately try to deal as much damage as possible using the tide of iron. But belive me, it won't help much and he doesn't last for long until his division is fully crushed. If you meet this guy in conquests or scenarios, remember you don't need to worry, as you only need to barrage this guy with artilleries and he is doomed. Although, he is not that bad for beginners, but he is not the man you want to keep in your HQ until the end. The legendary Messe-Leeb combo is enough to end this man's career. Use the Messe-Leeb combo until you can buy Guderian and buy Rommel, Graziani, and Rokossovsky instead. Those guys will accompany your journeys to the end. If you want a 5th panzer, I recommend Patton above this guy as he can be better at everything. If you want to upgrade his rank so he can get tougher, it is going to take more medals than any other panzer generals in the gold tier (which are better). The worst panzer of tier 3 is still better and more cost effective (especially in the end games) than Vatutin. If you are very fond of tanks and already completed the game and you want to buy him as collection, that is not a problem. However, all gold tier panzer generals are better than him. For his empty slot I highly recommend rumor as always, as it helps you a lot (especially in mid to end game). Note: I recommend the Messe-Leeb combo, but if you want to get him before Guderian, he can be great at the beginnings and boost your progress but you will need to exchange him for 1440 which means loosing 360 medals. Vatutin has never been a solid end-game general, and so is Messe. End-game generals are really limited by general space, and there are only so many generals that you can spawn. Nothing in the game cannot be done with only 3 generals, which can be filled by Guderian, Rommel, Manstein, Rokossovsky or Graziani (as you desire), and since there are so many better choices it would be really arbitrary to defend either vatutin or messe as having good end game potential. Thus I would like to point out then when we are discussing about beginning generals, I realize that members tend to conflate the definition of "end-game potential". I know its tough to leave this ubiquitous term, but what does end-game potential actually denote? It only means a general that forms your main, playable team in the literal end-game. Thats it. No other definitions can be fit in. Perhaps, what many members may actually mean is that when they refer to such generals, they really refer to the scale of early to mid to "late" game, insofar as to whether they can enjoy better alternatives. Notice how I explicitly use "late" here, endgame means 1980 while late suggests approaching the end game, two very different concepts. With this in mind, beginner generals can now be clearly and distinctly graded. My definition of beginner generals are those that can be of use, helping you clear campaigns without much difficulty until you can get more viable "late/end-game" generals. How does this apply to our friends Vatutin and Messe? Without a doubt, Messe is weaker than Vatutin. I know you might argue: hey but vatutin is fragile and slow! If you notice, Messe has 0 movement stars, so there is not much difference between the two in terms of mobility. Lets consider support value. If you give Vatutin rumor, he is basically the same as Messe but without crowd tactics and armored assault. Despite that, his output is still higher. Why? Plain fighting and a difference of 2 stars. I personally wouldnt waste gifting an additional star on a beginner general. Just not worth it in relation to the countless other scenarios that you could spend those precious medals on. His price is 3 times higher? If one is thrown off by this fact, then sure go ahead with an easily attainable Messe Leeb. I would like to remind everyone that Vatutin + Konev + Guderian + (yes I even got Yamashita as my second gen aft vatutin but still managed to grab konev guderian quickly. Imagine how much easier it would be without yamashita) is very plausible. Not only that, I have rarely heard accounts of players using Messe only for the first two campaigns. But with Vatutin, he will get you very far until the *late* game, simply due to his increased damage. Weaker defense? Messe is one rank lower, oops Seriously, there are so many possible paths. As Moltke the Elder argues, strategy is but a practical art of adapting means to ends. If I am able to easily get to the end-game with my unnatural combination, it proves that as long as I am able to reap the fruits of the endgame with a commonly agreed endgame roster, then how fast I want my early to mid game experience to go (where in mid game I can fully complete my final roster and ditch my beginning gens) really depends on how willing I am to take risks, or in my opinion carefully contemplated decisions that would make life easier for me in the long run. |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 12, 2020 6:47:40 GMT
Vatutin.. beginners' favorite. Savage attack. Critical attack!! Cost effective. Unless, if I tell you he is worse than Patton. For beginners he might be a great panzer commander, but as you progress through the game, he will become less and less effective. And finally.. the modern war! He will become unreliable in the modern war. Why? Vatutin hits hard and often do critical attacks (24% chance). But he is unreliably weak when it comes to defense. With his rank of only a captain and having no defensive skills, he doesn't survive so long especially in the modern war. He is also very slow. Although having panzer leader, he doesn't have the armored assault to stack his panzer leader, instead what he has is plain fighting (which is not that great as he has to attack from the plains without coverage from tank and artillery attacks). Once his health drops, his offensive capabilities will decrease, however he still desperately try to deal as much damage as possible using the tide of iron. But belive me, it won't help much and he doesn't last for long until his division is fully crushed. If you meet this guy in conquests or scenarios, remember you don't need to worry, as you only need to barrage this guy with artilleries and he is doomed. Although, he is not that bad for beginners, but he is not the man you want to keep in your HQ until the end. The legendary Messe-Leeb combo is enough to end this man's career. Use the Messe-Leeb combo until you can buy Guderian and buy Rommel, Graziani, and Rokossovsky instead. Those guys will accompany your journeys to the end. If you want a 5th panzer, I recommend Patton above this guy as he can be better at everything. If you want to upgrade his rank so he can get tougher, it is going to take more medals than any other panzer generals in the gold tier (which are better). The worst panzer of tier 3 is still better and more cost effective (especially in the end games) than Vatutin. If you are very fond of tanks and already completed the game and you want to buy him as collection, that is not a problem. However, all gold tier panzer generals are better than him. For his empty slot I highly recommend rumor as always, as it helps you a lot (especially in mid to end game). Note: I recommend the Messe-Leeb combo, but if you want to get him before Guderian, he can be great at the beginnings and boost your progress but you will need to exchange him for 1440 which means loosing 360 medals. Vatutin has never been a solid end-game general, and so is Messe. End-game generals are really limited by general space, and there are only so many generals that you can spawn. Nothing in the game cannot be done with only 3 generals, which can be filled by Guderian, Rommel, Manstein, Rokossovsky or Graziani (as you desire), and since there are so many better choices it would be really arbitrary to defend either vatutin or messe as having good end game potential. Thus I would like to point out then when we are discussing about beginning generals, I realize that members tend to conflate the definition of "end-game potential". I know its tough to leave this ubiquitous term, but what does end-game potential actually denote? It only means a general that forms your main, playable team in the literal end-game. Thats it. No other definitions can be fit in. Perhaps, what many members may actually mean is that when they refer to such generals, they really refer to the scale of early to mid to "late" game, insofar as to whether they can enjoy better alternatives. Notice how I explicitly use "late" here, endgame means 1980 while late suggests approaching the end game, two very different concepts. With this in mind, beginner generals can now be clearly and distinctly graded. My definition of beginner generals are those that can be of use, helping you clear campaigns without much difficulty until you can get more viable "late/end-game" generals. How does this apply to our friends Vatutin and Messe? Without a doubt, Messe is weaker than Vatutin. I know you might argue: hey but vatutin is fragile and slow! If you notice, Messe has 0 movement stars, so there is not much difference between the two in terms of mobility. Lets consider support value. If you give Vatutin rumor, he is basically the same as Messe but without crowd tactics and armored assault. Despite that, his output is still higher. Why? Plain fighting and a difference of 2 stars. I personally wouldnt waste gifting an additional star on a beginner general. Just not worth it in relation to the countless other scenarios that you could spend those precious medals on. His price is 3 times higher? If one is thrown off by this fact, then sure go ahead with an easily attainable Messe Leeb. I would like to remind everyone that Vatutin + Konev + Guderian + (yes I even got Yamashita as my second gen aft vatutin but still managed to grab konev guderian quickly. Imagine how much easier it would be without yamashita) is very plausible. Not only that, I have rarely heard accounts of players using Messe only for the first two campaigns. But with Vatutin, he will get you very far until the *late* game, simply due to his increased damage. Weaker defense? Messe is one rank lower, oops Seriously, there are so many possible paths. As Moltke the Elder argues, strategy is but a practical art of adapting means to ends. If I am able to easily get to the end-game with my unnatural combination, it proves that as long as I am able to reap the fruits of the endgame with a commonly agreed endgame roster, then how fast I want my early to mid game experience to go (where in mid game I can fully complete my final roster and ditch my beginning gens) really depends on how willing I am to take risks, or in my opinion carefully contemplated decisions that would make life easier for me in the long run. Yes, of course.. I agree. However to me, I'm not willing to lose 360 medals to buy and exchange him, I only lose 110 on messe. However medals sacred to me. I don't trade them for resources, I don't buy wonders with medals, and I don't want to lose any medals for unnecessary mistakes. Like I said, yes, you can use him as a tide turner in beginnings, but my personal choice is still the Messe-Leeb combo as you don't need to exchange Leeb (only Messe) and Leeb will last in your HQ until the end. |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 12, 2020 6:49:14 GMT
Medals are sufficient, so why worry Vatutin + Konev works swell too, I never had to use another artillery general other than Arnold, contrary to popular belief. But having 2 artillery generals is better for the general community... |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 12, 2020 7:07:20 GMT
Medals are sufficient, so why worry Vatutin + Konev works swell too, I never had to use another artillery general other than Arnold, contrary to popular belief. But having 2 artillery generals is better for the general community... Oh, you don't use Leeb, don't you? Let me surprise you in the Konev and Leeb discussions.. I will explain their INCREDIBLE roles both in the battlefield along with the skill you have to add (especially Konev). Prepare some medals to exchange Konev's skill after you read my skill recommendation for him 😄 |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 12, 2020 8:06:25 GMT
Medals are sufficient, so why worry Vatutin + Konev works swell too, I never had to use another artillery general other than Arnold, contrary to popular belief. But having 2 artillery generals is better for the general community... Oh, you don't use Leeb, don't you? Let me surprise you in the Konev and Leeb discussions.. I will explain their INCREDIBLE roles both in the battlefield along with the skill you have to add (especially Konev). Prepare some medals to exchange Konev's skill after you read my skill recommendation for him 😄 I have Leeb, but I dont see why I should force myself to use him just for the sake of fulfilling the norm. As for Konev, I look forward to what kind of suggestions you may have, since essentially there can only be the set few |
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Post by Sun Li-jen of the Glorious RoC on Apr 12, 2020 8:57:17 GMT
Oh, you don't use Leeb, don't you? Let me surprise you in the Konev and Leeb discussions.. I will explain their INCREDIBLE roles both in the battlefield along with the skill you have to add (especially Konev). Prepare some medals to exchange Konev's skill after you read my skill recommendation for him 😄 I have Leeb, but I dont see why I should force myself to use him just for the sake of fulfilling the norm. As for Konev, I look forward to what kind of suggestions you may have, since essentially there can only be the set few Thanks, you're the first one to greet me here and always respond to my posts. You are my comrade! 😄 I can fight communism and liberate China while you compose more propaganda songs to help me win the people's heart😂 |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 12, 2020 9:00:58 GMT
I have Leeb, but I dont see why I should force myself to use him just for the sake of fulfilling the norm. As for Konev, I look forward to what kind of suggestions you may have, since essentially there can only be the set few Thanks, you're the first one to greet me here and always respond to my posts. You are my comrade! 😄 I can fight communism and liberate China while you compose more propaganda songs to help me win the people's heart😂 Im used to be a resident wc4 hermit, so I will always be active here one way or another And everything is propaganda, ideological or not. Even a christmas carol can convey persuasions of materialism and capitalism  |
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Post by Harry Lillis "Bing" Crosby Jr on Apr 12, 2020 9:32:52 GMT
Im used to be a resident wc4 hermit, so I will always be active here one way or another And everything is propaganda, ideological or not. Even a christmas carol can convey persuasions of materialism and capitalism Well, capitalism is great and it has nothing to do with materialism! But we can not talk about it here. Remember the community guidelines: No politics hahaha, well did you know Capitalism is not merely a political concept? And you will be surprised as to how much it has to do with materialism, in the field of social and literary studies? Want me to elaborate more? And also politics are pretty much discussed here in the forum anyways, so long as its not radical or controversial. Intentions |
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