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Post by mrmansterin on Oct 29, 2020 1:21:45 GMT
Also I don't see when you said why the silver and bronze gens exist. I just see that good silver generals have the potential in endgame. But the thing is, hybrid generals are just not good enough in the "end" game. They won't be "good" at anything. So there's no point on keeping hybrids anymore after you have a fixed set of generals. Althougth it's totally up to you if you just want to have a set of sexy generals that you can look at in your HQ. Vatutin's chin tho.  ))))) Edit 1: BTW, I just noticed something weird: Why do you reply to me and to me only lol? There are other people saying the same thing but why do you just ignore them and answer to me only? Edit 2: The few bronze generals can be good in late game are Messe and Kuznestov. Messe can be used as a support general and Kuznestov is a decent naval general in endgame=1980s. Also, Messe is better than Model as a starting gen because that Messe also has stars in infantry and navy and the zero movement star is excusable as having one-a few stars is better than no stars. You are basically paying 1000 medals more for one more infantry star, one more artillery star, four movement stars, and one extra skill slot. The 1000 extra medals on a starting general just isn't worth it. However, he could be a good addition to the Messe and Leeb combo serving an infantry role. Their skills are equally useful but Model is just too expensive for a starting and hybrid general. But it is kind of cool to see what different paths that you can take+I did spend money on the vanilla game. Edit 3: Go here for the bronze gens in endgame thing: european-war-4.boards.net/thread/8352/final-lineup-iap-generals-guderian |
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Post by tristanknight on Nov 1, 2020 12:20:45 GMT
Well metalleater, it depends on where you are in the game. I am in the 1980s which Bing would refer to as "end" game. And I don't even like/play the vanilla game any more lol. I went on to mods and creating mods. So if you are a beginner, get Model why not but if you are considering a good hybrid, get Graz as Model won't have the customization ability. I can vouch for Graziani. The only thing that's preventing him from being as good as Guderian is not having Blitzkrieg. I put Panzer Leader and Armored Assault on him. Plus I see he has five stars in Infantry, so he could be a good hybrid. I should play around with him in a mod to see if he can be good as a hybrid. I should play around with Model as well to see what he's like. From what I can see in my HQ, he won't be as good as a hybrid as Graziani simply because he has only one open skill slot and none of his skills are Panzer Leader or Infantry Leader. So there's only room for one while Graziani has room for both. It would have to be one or the other for Model. |
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Post by metalleater on Nov 1, 2020 14:50:33 GMT
Althougth it's totally up to you if you just want to have a set of sexy generals that you can look at in your HQ. Vatutin's chin tho. ))))) -Do you think Vatutin is sexy? It's a little scary. Edit 1: BTW, I just noticed something weird: Why do you reply to me and to me only lol? There are other people saying the same thing but why do you just ignore them and answer to me only? -Tell me who else should I answer and who shouldn't. Edit 2: The few bronze generals can be good in late game are Messe and Kuznestov. Messe can be used as a support general and Kuznestov is a decent naval general in endgame=1980s. Also, Messe is better than Model as a starting gen because that Messe also has stars in infantry and navy and the zero movement star is excusable as having one-a few stars is better than no stars. You are basically paying 1000 medals more for one more infantry star, one more artillery star, four movement stars, and one extra skill slot. The 1000 extra medals on a starting general just isn't worth it. However, he could be a good addition to the Messe and Leeb combo serving an infantry role. Their skills are equally useful but Model is just too expensive for a starting and hybrid general. But it is kind of cool to see what different paths that you can take+I did spend money on the vanilla game. - Are you in the Messe Witness Sect?  Every second person on this forum mentions Messe ... Maybe you think he is also sexy? Messe is the obvious choice for the starting general. Everyone knows that. |
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Post by metalleater on Nov 1, 2020 15:33:06 GMT
Well metalleater , it depends on where you are in the game. I am in the 1980s which Bing would refer to as "end" game. And I don't even like/play the vanilla game any more lol. I went on to mods and creating mods. So if you are a beginner, get Model why not but if you are considering a good hybrid, get Graz as Model won't have the customization ability. I can vouch for Graziani. The only thing that's preventing him from being as good as Guderian is not having Blitzkrieg. I put Panzer Leader and Armored Assault on him. Plus I see he has five stars in Infantry, so he could be a good hybrid. I should play around with him in a mod to see if he can be good as a hybrid. I should play around with Model as well to see what he's like. From what I can see in my HQ, he won't be as good as a hybrid as Graziani simply because he has only one open skill slot and none of his skills are Panzer Leader or Infantry Leader. So there's only room for one while Graziani has room for both. It would have to be one or the other for Model. Compare Graziani with Guderian? Let's compare Messe to Guderian next time:). Taking a general who is 700+ more expensive just for the sake of a second free slot is at least very strange. You will never have enough medals to fully improve 3 tank generals and 2 artillery (+ generals for the fleet and support are needed) until very late game. Moreover, to make a tank damage dealer general out of a good hybrid??? I agreed if you gave him Rumor - universal skill that works on water, in the air and on land. For tanks, there are the better options among the gold generals: Guderian, Romel, Roko. His main skill Machinist is totally useless in missions and company(I would prefer Roko's Panzer Leader or Romel's AA). Machinist definitely doesn't pay for itself in 20-30 mission turns. Machinist does not help to use repeated attacks - the main advantage of tanks. And even if the tank has little HP, I would prefer TOI- it retains its effectiveness to kill, not passive +9 hp per raund. Machinist shines in Conquests, but I would go with +3 Model or Roco moves, because in Conquests, speed is even more important. Therefore, buying Graziani for beginners is all the same as roasting nightingales. Whith the same output model enters the battle 700 medals earlier and make monney for next generals. It's a colossal difference. And at the end of the game, you can take any general, even Graziani and upgrade him. After that, he becomes great. But this is definitely not the most important general. |
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Post by tristanknight on Nov 1, 2020 17:11:00 GMT
I can vouch for Graziani. The only thing that's preventing him from being as good as Guderian is not having Blitzkrieg. I put Panzer Leader and Armored Assault on him. Plus I see he has five stars in Infantry, so he could be a good hybrid. I should play around with him in a mod to see if he can be good as a hybrid. I should play around with Model as well to see what he's like. From what I can see in my HQ, he won't be as good as a hybrid as Graziani simply because he has only one open skill slot and none of his skills are Panzer Leader or Infantry Leader. So there's only room for one while Graziani has room for both. It would have to be one or the other for Model. Compare Graziani with Guderian? Let's compare Messe to Guderian next time:). Taking a general who is 700+ more expensive just for the sake of a second free slot is at least very strange. You will never have enough medals to fully improve 3 tank generals and 2 artillery (+ generals for the fleet and support are needed) until very late game. Moreover, to make a tank damage dealer general out of a good hybrid??? I agreed if you gave him Rumor - universal skill that works on water, in the air and on land. For tanks, there are the better options among the gold generals: Guderian, Romel, Roko. His main skill Machinist is totally useless in missions and company(I would prefer Roko's Panzer Leader or Romel's AA). Machinist definitely doesn't pay for itself in 20-30 mission turns. Machinist does not help to use repeated attacks - the main advantage of tanks. And even if the tank has little HP, I would prefer TOI- it retains its effectiveness to kill, not passive +9 hp per raund. Machinist shines in Conquests, but I would go with +3 Model or Roco moves, because in Conquests, speed is even more important. Therefore, buying Graziani for beginners is all the same as roasting nightingales. Whith the same output model enters the battle 700 medals earlier and make monney for next generals. It's a colossal difference. And at the end of the game, you can take any general, even Graziani and upgrade him. After that, he becomes great. But this is definitely not the most important general. It sounds like you underestimate Graziani. He is my #2 general, and that's because of that machinist you call 'useless'. He might not have the firepower the others have, but he lasts longer than the others do and because of that, his overall damage ends up being on par with Guderian and Rommel's output. Graziani might be more medals than Model, but that's because he has the stars, skills and +1 slot. Machinist is actually very valuable imo, and I lately wonder what it would be like if Guderian had it. Well, that's what a mod is for, so I'll get back to you on that. |
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Post by mrmansterin on Nov 1, 2020 17:31:09 GMT
Althougth it's totally up to you if you just want to have a set of sexy generals that you can look at in your HQ. Vatutin's chin tho. ))))) -Do you think Vatutin is sexy? It's a little scary. Edit 1: BTW, I just noticed something weird: Why do you reply to me and to me only lol? There are other people saying the same thing but why do you just ignore them and answer to me only? -Tell me who else should I answer and who shouldn't. Edit 2: The few bronze generals can be good in late game are Messe and Kuznestov. Messe can be used as a support general and Kuznestov is a decent naval general in endgame=1980s. Also, Messe is better than Model as a starting gen because that Messe also has stars in infantry and navy and the zero movement star is excusable as having one-a few stars is better than no stars. You are basically paying 1000 medals more for one more infantry star, one more artillery star, four movement stars, and one extra skill slot. The 1000 extra medals on a starting general just isn't worth it. However, he could be a good addition to the Messe and Leeb combo serving an infantry role. Their skills are equally useful but Model is just too expensive for a starting and hybrid general. But it is kind of cool to see what different paths that you can take+I did spend money on the vanilla game. - Are you in the Mass Witness Sect? Every second person on this forum mentions Messe ... Maybe you think he is also sexy? Messe is the obvious choice for the starting general. Everyone knows that. I am confused on what you are even saying lol. Plz explain |
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Post by tristanknight on Nov 1, 2020 21:39:28 GMT
I did a test run between Guderian and Graziani. While Guderian had the firepower, he finished with less HP.
Through 20 turns:
Average damage per turn, this includes multiple attacks.
Guderian - 423.9
Graziani - 347.1
Average damage per attack (38) for each.
Guderian - 223.1
Graziani - 182.7
HP remaining:
Guderian - 824
Graziani - 901
This shows that Graziani's machinist isn't useless, and would've had him pressing on while Guderian would eventually be killed.
Of course these numbers are influenced by medals, Guderian has the necessary tank medals, while Graziani only has the machinist medal. I probably could take the medals off and do it again for true values. I may do Rommel later just to see where he ranks.
I had to do this with Germany 1943 just to avoid either of them being airstriked before I left Berlin. Graziani went to Moscow, Guderian made it to New Delhi.
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Post by mrmansterin on Nov 2, 2020 17:16:41 GMT
BTW, metalleater , I never said Vatutin is sexy lol. But his chin looks amazing But please don't accuse anyone and make inference based on anybody's message. And the sexy thing was never meant to be taken seriously so please stop. Plus I don't appreciate you making fun of something that is obviously supposed to be a joke. So please please stop. Thanks |
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Post by metalleater on Nov 14, 2020 15:23:10 GMT
I did a test run between Guderian and Graziani. While Guderian had the firepower, he finished with less HP. Through 20 turns: Average damage per turn, this includes multiple attacks. Guderian - 423.9 Graziani - 347.1 Average damage per attack (38) for each. Guderian - 223.1 Graziani - 182.7 HP remaining: Guderian - 824 Graziani - 901 This shows that Graziani's machinist isn't useless, and would've had him pressing on while Guderian would eventually be killed. Of course these numbers are influenced by medals, Guderian has the necessary tank medals, while Graziani only has the machinist medal. I probably could take the medals off and do it again for true values. I may do Rommel later just to see where he ranks. I had to do this with Germany 1943 just to avoid either of them being airstriked before I left Berlin. Graziani went to Moscow, Guderian made it to New Delhi. Wow! As soon as possible сhanging Guderian to Graziani!!! Guderin and Graziani have the same rank, and therefore hp. 901-824 = 77hp. With medal Graziani restores 12 hp per turn. It must take 7 turns for him to recover up to 84 hp. How many tests did you need to figure this out? |
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Post by tristanknight on Nov 15, 2020 0:09:09 GMT
I did a test run between Guderian and Graziani. While Guderian had the firepower, he finished with less HP. Through 20 turns: Average damage per turn, this includes multiple attacks. Guderian - 423.9 Graziani - 347.1 Average damage per attack (38) for each. Guderian - 223.1 Graziani - 182.7 HP remaining: Guderian - 824 Graziani - 901 This shows that Graziani's machinist isn't useless, and would've had him pressing on while Guderian would eventually be killed. Of course these numbers are influenced by medals, Guderian has the necessary tank medals, while Graziani only has the machinist medal. I probably could take the medals off and do it again for true values. I may do Rommel later just to see where he ranks. I had to do this with Germany 1943 just to avoid either of them being airstriked before I left Berlin. Graziani went to Moscow, Guderian made it to New Delhi. Wow! As soon as possible сhanging Guderian to Graziani!!! Guderin and Graziani have the same rank, and therefore hp. 901-824 = 77hp. With medal Graziani restores 12 hp per turn. It must take 7 turns for him to recover up to 84 hp. How many tests did you need to figure this out? This was just one run. I can do more if necessary to determine a more accurate average, if you want me to. |
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)))))
Every second person on this forum mentions Messe ... Maybe you think he is also sexy? Messe is the obvious choice for the starting general. Everyone knows that.
